Yes, this is a common remedy and for some, it works well. Load a magazine with a few snap caps. Good suggestion...
How to help someone that is recoil/noise shy?
- Thread starter Cleftwynd
- Start date
Yes, this is a common remedy and for some, it works well. Load a magazine with a few snap caps. Good suggestion...
Some great input here, the problem is I am dealing with people that have had rifles their whole lives and hunt each year. My 8 year old son doesn't even flinch.
Lots of great advice here, I will use most of it.
Lots of great advice here, I will use most of it.
Someone who is flinching and afraid of recoil doesn't know how to shoot. If you don't understand that, you don't understand some important stuff about shooting.
My guess about what happened is that now you think you don't have a flinch.
I have helped a few people in this manner. One really bad flincher was due to being rocked with a 7mm mag.
I load up some very light loads - cast with trailboss is really good stuff - and a few dummy loads, usually with the fired primer still in the casing. Next, at the range, I will get them to load up a couple of teh dummy rounds into the magazine and practice the trigger squeeze while looking down range at the target. I want them to pay particular to how much the rifle moves (or jumps) off target. Next, I get them to rest the trigger at the joint of the finger and gently squeeze. This position usually helps reduce some of the flinch.
Next we load up with the light loads and touch them off too, paying more attention to the rifle jump and focusing on the importance of the rifle rest, breathing and resting the rifle firmly to the shoulder. The light loads provides the ease of which to get confidence and not anticipating a recoil.
lastly, we load up a couple of full loads, stressing the firm resting of the rifle against the shoulder. After that, it is practice.
I load up some very light loads - cast with trailboss is really good stuff - and a few dummy loads, usually with the fired primer still in the casing. Next, at the range, I will get them to load up a couple of teh dummy rounds into the magazine and practice the trigger squeeze while looking down range at the target. I want them to pay particular to how much the rifle moves (or jumps) off target. Next, I get them to rest the trigger at the joint of the finger and gently squeeze. This position usually helps reduce some of the flinch.
Next we load up with the light loads and touch them off too, paying more attention to the rifle jump and focusing on the importance of the rifle rest, breathing and resting the rifle firmly to the shoulder. The light loads provides the ease of which to get confidence and not anticipating a recoil.
lastly, we load up a couple of full loads, stressing the firm resting of the rifle against the shoulder. After that, it is practice.
digitalblue
CGN Regular
- Location
- GTA unfortunately
Make sure the ear protection they're using is well sealed to their heads.
I wore earmuffs for a good year before I realized the frames of my safety glasses kept them from sealing properly.
Flinched like hell(even small stuff like .223) until I started wearing earplugs instead of earmuffs.
If recoil is the reason they're flinching, try starting them off on a .223.
I wore earmuffs for a good year before I realized the frames of my safety glasses kept them from sealing properly.
Flinched like hell(even small stuff like .223) until I started wearing earplugs instead of earmuffs.
If recoil is the reason they're flinching, try starting them off on a .223.
I'm fairly new to shooting and I have to say that for me, hearing protection was key... I wore the plugs as well as the muffs to double up the protection. Helped lots. Also, when shooting pistols, I've heard guys that toss a bunch of snap caps in with their regular ammo...don't look when they load the mags...and that way, they see if they have a flinch or not. Hope this helps.
Good luck
Good luck
I was caught flinching when I tried a .45 Long Colt for the first time.
The insttuctor casually mentioned there is nothing to worry about, the bullet goes out the other end, no problem.
Hearing and eye protection are two big fears of new shooters and older shooters who had lesser values of these two attributes.
Advancing a new shooter to too heavy a recoiling rifle is a no-no. A gradual learning curve will offer greater rewards.
Never hesitate to back off. If you have to go back to the rimfire there is more to be gained.
Some people will never overcome a flinch but trying to help someone may best be accomplished by starting over as if they are a new shooter, and teaching a new approach.
Seeing a father encouraging his 8 year old to fire a .30-06 does not promote a healthy picture from my point of view. Neither did the boyfriend buying his novice girlfriend a .300 Win Mag. Having to learn sometime does not suggest any teaching attributes.
After trying to dissuade the owner of "300 La###xorboomuni" to allow a young man from firing this rifle, the resulting gash over the shooters eye should have made my point only to be convinced when the owner said "the same thing happened to his mother". It would only be funny if it were not so stupid!
The insttuctor casually mentioned there is nothing to worry about, the bullet goes out the other end, no problem.
Hearing and eye protection are two big fears of new shooters and older shooters who had lesser values of these two attributes.
Advancing a new shooter to too heavy a recoiling rifle is a no-no. A gradual learning curve will offer greater rewards.
Never hesitate to back off. If you have to go back to the rimfire there is more to be gained.
Some people will never overcome a flinch but trying to help someone may best be accomplished by starting over as if they are a new shooter, and teaching a new approach.
Seeing a father encouraging his 8 year old to fire a .30-06 does not promote a healthy picture from my point of view. Neither did the boyfriend buying his novice girlfriend a .300 Win Mag. Having to learn sometime does not suggest any teaching attributes.
After trying to dissuade the owner of "300 La###xorboomuni" to allow a young man from firing this rifle, the resulting gash over the shooters eye should have made my point only to be convinced when the owner said "the same thing happened to his mother". It would only be funny if it were not so stupid!
In training we were told the "squeeze squeeze squeeze bang" method. It sounds silly but if you keep repeating the word squeeze out loud over and over again while adding pressure to the trigger, the bang should surprise you and you wont be able to anticipate the recoil and pull your shots. This worked wonders for alot of people I trained with. Repetition really is the key though.
Next time they are over shooting get them to shoot a few rounds then give them a set of thin knit gloves to wear and get them to do some shooting, they won't feel the pressure of the trigger being the same and the rifle won't fire as soon as suspected.
If this is done 90% of the people i have helped with flinching have been cured in one session, trust me it works.
If this is done 90% of the people i have helped with flinching have been cured in one session, trust me it works.
That's why I suggested the dummy rounds. Many guys are too proud to admit they are cringing like a crack ho that's about to get
slapped by their pimp.The worst flinchers are the 50+ crowd! Guys with one old rifle that brag a lot about their many years of amazing feats while hunting and shooting. Then they sit down at the bench with their 30-30 or 303 and attempt to rip the trigger off while closing their eyes. I know some are lost causes, but it would be nice to know how to actually help without sounding holier than thou.
Some listen, some don't, I just want to be better informed myself as to how to teach someone the ability to shoot calmly with their eyes open.
Some listen, some don't, I just want to be better informed myself as to how to teach someone the ability to shoot calmly with their eyes open.
Hey! hey! hey! I'm over 50 so don't paint me with that brush. LOL!!! Just kidding. There is some good advise from members on this thread to help prevent flinching, such as better hearing protection, recoil pad, light loads, small cartridge, practice, etc. My personal advise is to coach the shooter to overcome the physiological barrrier that the firearm will not cause any harm from it's recoil. The next best advise is to practice.................alot.
That is brilliant!!! I usually tell people to squeeze the trigger until the gun goes off, don't try to "Make it go off". I think flinching is also caused more by noise than by recoil but lets face it, there are some guns due to calibre or by design that simply hurt to shoot.
Scott
I don't shoot a lot, but I did put about 500 rounds through my rifles this summer while learning to reload. I found I would get fatigued and start to struggle with my shooting. Especially my 338 Win Mag. I then started double plugging and WOW what a difference. It seemed like the recoil went away. I'm a bit of a jumpy fella when it comes to loud noises so you can imagine the strain on my poor psyche when I'm out shooting.
G
G
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Without reading many of the other responses, which frankly seem too short to be of much benefit, I apologize if the following has already been covered.
Start the fellow with the very rifle he seems to be afraid of. The first step is a return to basic marksmanship. Check to ensure he is holding the rifle correctly, with the butt in the pocket of his shoulder. Does the rifle fit him, if not get it fixed. Does the scope extend so far rearward, that he is in danger of getting hit by it? If so get it properly adjusted.
Explain to him natural point of aim; how to acquire it, and how to check it in each of the basic field shooting positions. Explain the difference between sight picture and sight alignment. Teach him to press the trigger at a natural respiratory pause, as this is the most repeatable breath control, and does not leave the brain oxygen deprived, the heart pounding, and the lungs gasping for air like the empty lung technique, and it provides a more stable shooting platform than the full lung technique.
Get him dry firing. Go over and over the basics of marksmanship. Breath, relax, aim, slack, squeeze. He has to learn to support the rifle by stacking bones under it, rather than muscling it around. He must develop a feel for his trigger. Begin with prone. When he can dry fire with a coin balanced near the muzzle of the rifle without disturbing it, he's ready for live fire.
Begin with a few empty primed cartridges. Continue with these until he no longer jumps at the "bang". No hearing protection should be worn at this stage. Next is live fire with handloads loaded very gently, say in the case of a .250-3000 a 100 gr bullet at 1800 fps. At this stage hearing protection should be introduced. Have him shoot offhand at 10 yards. When he can handle off hand, get him to kneel, then sit, then prone. Now extend the range to 25, then to 50, then to 100. When he can shoot reasonable groups at 100, step up the velocity to say 2500. When he throws a shot wide, get him to determine what he did wrong and what he has to do to correct it. Keep hammering the basics to him so that he is so intent upon the mechanics of the shot he doesn't have time to think about recoil or noise. Once he is shooting well out to 200 yards, let him shoot with full powered ammo, and from this point on he should be cured.
Marksmanship training can go as far as he wants to take it, but once he can shoot consistently out to 200, he has pretty much beaten his flinch. The fix isn't fast, easy, or cheap, and to succeed, he must really want it. There is little point in your dedication to fixing the problem if he isn't equally involved.
Start the fellow with the very rifle he seems to be afraid of. The first step is a return to basic marksmanship. Check to ensure he is holding the rifle correctly, with the butt in the pocket of his shoulder. Does the rifle fit him, if not get it fixed. Does the scope extend so far rearward, that he is in danger of getting hit by it? If so get it properly adjusted.
Explain to him natural point of aim; how to acquire it, and how to check it in each of the basic field shooting positions. Explain the difference between sight picture and sight alignment. Teach him to press the trigger at a natural respiratory pause, as this is the most repeatable breath control, and does not leave the brain oxygen deprived, the heart pounding, and the lungs gasping for air like the empty lung technique, and it provides a more stable shooting platform than the full lung technique.
Get him dry firing. Go over and over the basics of marksmanship. Breath, relax, aim, slack, squeeze. He has to learn to support the rifle by stacking bones under it, rather than muscling it around. He must develop a feel for his trigger. Begin with prone. When he can dry fire with a coin balanced near the muzzle of the rifle without disturbing it, he's ready for live fire.
Begin with a few empty primed cartridges. Continue with these until he no longer jumps at the "bang". No hearing protection should be worn at this stage. Next is live fire with handloads loaded very gently, say in the case of a .250-3000 a 100 gr bullet at 1800 fps. At this stage hearing protection should be introduced. Have him shoot offhand at 10 yards. When he can handle off hand, get him to kneel, then sit, then prone. Now extend the range to 25, then to 50, then to 100. When he can shoot reasonable groups at 100, step up the velocity to say 2500. When he throws a shot wide, get him to determine what he did wrong and what he has to do to correct it. Keep hammering the basics to him so that he is so intent upon the mechanics of the shot he doesn't have time to think about recoil or noise. Once he is shooting well out to 200 yards, let him shoot with full powered ammo, and from this point on he should be cured.
Marksmanship training can go as far as he wants to take it, but once he can shoot consistently out to 200, he has pretty much beaten his flinch. The fix isn't fast, easy, or cheap, and to succeed, he must really want it. There is little point in your dedication to fixing the problem if he isn't equally involved.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
To make shooting more comfy, try these steps.
Get rid of the noise - double plug and invest in some 31 to 33dB earmuffs. Howard Leight makes some that are rated better then the aircraft ones. Some ear plugs are rated at 33dB although sensation isn't as good. Put both on and most rifles become quiet.
Get rid of the recoil - consider a PAST shoulder pad to augment the recoil pad on the rifle. Change recoil pads. Alot of older factory ones don't do much. New sorbathane and other soft polymers help alot. Limbsaver makes a great product. Even the dirt cheap plastic rifles now come with excellent pads. Some companies like Rem offer new pads to swap into old stocks. If you can't squish the pad easily with your fingers, it isn't going to do much for you during recoil.
Isolate the rifle from bouncing - hitting cheek. Sandbags front and rear can help slow down the rearward jump. A towel over the comb can help with that slap - of course a better fitting stock is ideal.
Muzzle brakes are the last part but if not your rifle, not easily done. Neither is weight.
Going to reduced loads is becoming very popular and ammo/reloading data is leaving performance not much difference then full meal deal BUT the recoil/noise is greatly reduced. New bullets are working at slower velocities ensure awesome ongame performance so a 30-30 type recoil can equal a 300WM in internal damage.
Hrn just released a SST for the 7.62X39 - how's that for a nice sedate hunting rd. Apparently, hog hunters are loving them.
Jerry
Get rid of the noise - double plug and invest in some 31 to 33dB earmuffs. Howard Leight makes some that are rated better then the aircraft ones. Some ear plugs are rated at 33dB although sensation isn't as good. Put both on and most rifles become quiet.
Get rid of the recoil - consider a PAST shoulder pad to augment the recoil pad on the rifle. Change recoil pads. Alot of older factory ones don't do much. New sorbathane and other soft polymers help alot. Limbsaver makes a great product. Even the dirt cheap plastic rifles now come with excellent pads. Some companies like Rem offer new pads to swap into old stocks. If you can't squish the pad easily with your fingers, it isn't going to do much for you during recoil.
Isolate the rifle from bouncing - hitting cheek. Sandbags front and rear can help slow down the rearward jump. A towel over the comb can help with that slap - of course a better fitting stock is ideal.
Muzzle brakes are the last part but if not your rifle, not easily done. Neither is weight.
Going to reduced loads is becoming very popular and ammo/reloading data is leaving performance not much difference then full meal deal BUT the recoil/noise is greatly reduced. New bullets are working at slower velocities ensure awesome ongame performance so a 30-30 type recoil can equal a 300WM in internal damage.
Hrn just released a SST for the 7.62X39 - how's that for a nice sedate hunting rd. Apparently, hog hunters are loving them.
Jerry
I have been flinchy my whole life....shot lots....
my advice with new hunters(kids) is shootng a .22 lots. Use ear protection.
to me it is a bit better if the rifle is a little to long for the shooter they can't really get to close on the scope....all the fundementals are the same with the .22
then you take them deer hunting with a heavy scoped rifle of a reasonable cartridge with a nice soft pad...a bit long...they are wearing heavy clothes..they line up and shoot the deer having never shot the centerfire one before...it works good.
kid goes back to shooting the .22 right away.
my advice with new hunters(kids) is shootng a .22 lots. Use ear protection.
to me it is a bit better if the rifle is a little to long for the shooter they can't really get to close on the scope....all the fundementals are the same with the .22
then you take them deer hunting with a heavy scoped rifle of a reasonable cartridge with a nice soft pad...a bit long...they are wearing heavy clothes..they line up and shoot the deer having never shot the centerfire one before...it works good.
kid goes back to shooting the .22 right away.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
IMHO, while shooting a .22 is better than no shooting at all, it will not address being startled by the bang, or provide a way to think through the flinch reflex. Mentally, when a shooter chambers a centerfire cartridge, it produces a different mindset then when he loads a rimfire cartridge, and powder puff loads are the only way to get in the way of that. Concentrating on the mechanics of the shot to the exclusion of everything else is how to train a shooter to think through the flinch reflex, whether the cartridge is a .250 Savage or a .460 Weatherby.
Start with visualization then dry fires then low calibres and using a gradual increase in calibres have them shoot shoot shoot to habituate them. Also have them make a prediction about the liklihood of prediction of what feared come true and compare it to what actually happens. Deep breathing before is sometimes useful. Have them attempt to eschew their safety behavior(flinching) while facing the recoil.
With some thought on the matter, using reduced recoil loads, with good hearing prediction, and as Boomer stated to think through the shot while intentionally facing their fear seems like a good direction to take. It is obviously fear caused by the noise more than anything especially when it is something like a 250-3000.
That is what I am getting so far from all of this, I will reread it all again though.
That is what I am getting so far from all of this, I will reread it all again though.
