Tavor advice, Yes or No??

Jerengineer

Jerengineer

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Hi Folks,

In April we are having our first child and to congratulate myself on a job well done I’ve decided to get my first black rifle. I’m leaning toward the IWI Tavor TAR 21. Please tell me why this is a good or bad idea. Here is a little about my shooting application and life.

1) I have access to basically unlimited 5.56x45mm brass (I’m a Canadian Ranger and we shoot the C7 yearly)
2) Reloading
3) Hunting wolves (not at the range, so ya, non-restricted a must)
4) -40 winter conditions
5) 300m shooting competitions

Questions:
1) Can I do this with reasonable add-ons (including optics) for less than 3000?
2) Does it fit my shooting needs?
3) What add-ons should I be ordering?
4) Who should I buy from?
 
I only have good things to say about my Tavor, with the exception of the trigger, it is a longer & heavier pull than I would like... But it NEVER skips a beat, it simply works.

I have a regular scope on mine, a Bushnell Elite 6500 1.25-8x32 with ARMS QD mount & 35M rings. Good optic for the $ and hunting.

I have no shot the rifle in -40, so I can't comment...

I think the 223, even with 68 grain soft points, is a little light for wolves, but it will work. The Winchester PowerPoints are 68 grain & the heaviest I think you can buy pre-loaded. You can likely go heavier by handloading, I'm sure guys will chime in...

I know one guy who did quite a bit of wolf hunting with a guide & he said most guys use their deer rifles... And most guys don't shoot deer with the 223, even if it is legal where they are.

All of that being said, I would buy my Tavor again IN A HEARTBEAT. (I got my first & then my second from CanadaAmmo)

And, congrats on the expected child!

Cheers
Jay
 
If you are rewarding yourself with Tavor on your contribution towards your first child, your wife must be getting a new BMW
:)
 
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It depends on what you want the black rifle for...if your just going to shoot it in competition and ranges, you can get an Ar15 for half of that price.
But if you do not want to shoot in range and want to go hunting, then tavor would be better.
 
If you ask me, its not the right gun for your criteria. Its basically too small for wolves, not accurate enough for 300m shooting competitions(if you want to win).

If you want to stick with .223 ammo, get a Swiss arms as they are unrestricted and far more accurate.
If you want to go bigger in a bullpup for wolves, get a .308 Kel Tec RFB.
 
Jerengineer said:
4) -40 winter conditions
5) 300m shooting competitions
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Sorry, I know some Tavor lovers will want to chastise me (while the ones truly in the know will agree), but The Tavor will not excel in the 2 area's mentioned above. Besides this, I have nothing bad to say about them, if it weren't for the sloppy trigger i would buy one myself (Great all day carry, especially vs my NR Swiss)

A Non Restricted Swiss Arms would be much better (in those two categories anyway) They are truly cold weather rifles, they are known to function and tested to function in any negative temperatures you could possibly encounter, there are several CGN's who have posted details after shooting their Swiss Arms in -30c

This is just some of there cold weather testing

"They expose each weapon, together with at least 600 rounds of ammunition in magazines, to a temperature of - 300C for 12 hours. Then from the cold storage chamber, held at - 30'C, fire 12 strings of 50 shots. If that wasn't enough they Expose the weapon and 40 rounds in 2 magazines to a temperature of - 100C for 6 hours. Support the weapon on its bipod and then spray it lightly with water until a layer of ice at least 3 mm thick has formed on the surface. Then using only a bayonet make the rifle ready to fire."

More about Destructive testing here: http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/

Can anyone speak for the Tavor in regard to true cold weather shooting? Does it function well when the mercury really drops. I have no experience with it, and am curious as to how IWI test's them for -30c type conditions. TV Press-Pass, should be able to answer this
 
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I just checked out the Kel Tec RFB. I would definitely like something in 308. Anyone use these in the cold?

The SIGs look sweet, I wanted the cool factor of the bullpup though. I'll do some more reading on them.

Any other 308 bullpups out there I should consider?

(hbean - The wife got a grizzly bear spirit hood and nice ring, she is happy and I wont be mentioning the BMW comment to her)
 
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Jerengineer said:
-40 winter conditions
Click to expand...

CGN'er Otokiak uses his Swiss Arms and M1A rifle to hunt in the Arctic, probably the best guy here to ask about that (I have been in -35 with an M14, worked great).

As far as 300m competition goes, Swiss Arms was made for that and the M14 is pretty darn good at it also. My recommendation would be a LRB Arms M14 rifle. It can take the cold, has great sights and has plenty of power (.308) for hunting.
 
Jerengineer said:
I just checked out the Kel Tec RFB. I would definitely like something in 308. Anyone use these in the cold?

The SIGs look sweet, I wanted the cool factor of the bullpup though. I'll do some more reading on them.

Any other 308 bullpups out there I should consider?

(hbean - The wife got a grizzly bear spirit hood and nice ring, she is happy and I wont be mentioning the BMW comment to her)
Click to expand...

I have both the Tavor and the RFB and a few others you haven't mentioned yet ;-)... Both very different, but in my opinion excellent rifles. I've fired the Tavor in -20c at the range with no issue, and the coldest the RFB has been out in was -10c. If I had to choose one for the colder weather, I would pick the Tavor. The polymer seems a little softer than the Kel-Tec, so presumably less brittle. As well, the trigger guard will allow firing the rifle wearing giant gloves or even mitts. Plus you get higher capacity with the LAR mags, and cleaning is a breeze. In terms of taking care of wolves, I feel it is more than up to the task given the right ammunition. I have used 223 on deer and 150lb + wild boar. Proper placement will ensure one shot kills (for me anyways). I typically use Federal 62 grain bonded soft point, or Winchester 55 grain ballistic Silvertip. The only thing I cannot speak to is the 300m shots... Never taken one with the Tavor and yet.

Congratulations on the upcoming addition to your family!

Stay warm & play safe,

Mike
 
-40c (and anywhere in that vicinity) makes firearms behave in ways very unique to those types of conditions. While I personally cannot say anything about the RFB or Tavor in -40c conditions, I definitely wouldn't buy anything intending on using it in that kind of cold until I knew that it would reliably function in those conditions

Edit:
stormtrooper1015 said:
I've fired the Tavor in -20c at the range with no issue, and the coldest the RFB has been out in was -10c
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This is more like what I was hoping to read. -20c is still a ways from -40c though. Any CGN's shoot a Tavor or RFB at these kind of temps(or Swiss for that matter, they test them to this cold but I wouldn't be personally testing mine in that kind of cold)
 
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I did not like mine

The trigger is the worst I have ever pulled, even worse the a AK or even GPMG. This is not right for a rifle costing that much! Some say remove the spring, but its there for a reason.

I also find the thin barrel warders when heated up and your grouping suffer. I found your eyes get some gas blow back in them too :(

Next the cocking handle is not smooth at all when cocking the rifle and seems flimsy too
 
jessekf said:
I dont own an RFB, but I have heard tons of positive things. I was just giving you options that might work better for you.
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Yes thanks, I'm still reading about it. KEEP THE OPTIONS COMING!! I don't really know much on the subject and I'm learning lots from this thread.

Edit: That forward ejecting worries me a bit, looks like the brass sort of gets moved down a tube of some kind and if that filled with snow or ice.... maybe there is enough force pushing them down that its not a concern... maybe.
 
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Jerengineer said:
Questions:
1) Can I do this with reasonable add-ons (including optics) for less than 3000?
2) Does it fit my shooting needs?
3) What add-ons should I be ordering?
4) Who should I buy from?
Click to expand...

1. Yes (see #4).
2. Yes, although accuracy @300m isn't going to be what you're used to.
3. A nice muzzle brake and QD sling mount (I prefer the cords). And some LAR-15 magazines.
4. Your cheapest option is to snag a used/minty one off the EE. They've appeared for as low as $2,100 at times. There are several models: a) 1 gen which have a proprietary mount (you'll need an aftermarket picatinny rail to mount anything) ... b) 1.5 gen which had a short/factory picatinny rail ... c) 2 gen with the full-length flattop rail.

Dsiwy said:
Next the cocking handle is not smooth at all when cocking the rifle and seems flimsy too
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I have to disagree with this point. I don't find it flimsy in the least, and while it's not as smooth as say an AR15 - it's much easier than something than say a Kriss Vector. This is a combat rifle after all.

Jay said:
I think the 223, even with 68 grain soft points, is a little light for wolves, but it will work. The Winchester PowerPoints are 68 grain & the heaviest I think you can buy pre-loaded. You can likely go heavier by handloading, I'm sure guys will chime in...
Click to expand...

Hornady 75-grain TAP is commercially available, as is Black Hills 5.56 Nato 77-grain Sierra MatchKing hollow point.
 
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My Tavor short stroked in sub zero temperature at about a 10% failure to feed rate , tried all different ammo , different lubes, mags , cleaning. No luck , only other thing i thought to try was taking a couple coils off the recoil spring to lighten it up, It seemed to be getting under gassed ? i just got rid of it and got a Swiss Arms and never looked back ..

The Swiss is way more rifle for the money , seems bomb proof, very accurate , mind blowing quality and not one hicup in over 3000 rounds fired , but is heavier and longer without the 10 round perk . The Tavor should not be priced over 2k for what it is ..
 
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