Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm Accuracy Problem

Sinasta said:
Doesnt matter as I said. There are some full size M&P that have "accuracy" issues at 25 yards. This guy is shooting that pattern at 5 yards. Read it again FIVE. It is all user error.
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Agreed. With practice he will improve. Installing the right grip for him will solve some of his problems even if TDC doesn'r think so. Of course he also thinks target sights just make up for poor fundamentals and a trigger job is a waste so what do thosands of shooter not to mention Olympic carded shooters know.

Take Care

Bob
 
guarantee you its the striker fired lightweight polymer semi VS. the old hammer fired double action (or possibly single action?) trigger you are used to . TOTALLY different trigger pull.

Practice dry firing and see if you are pulling in any sideways direction. You will get used to it.. choose finger position on the trigger wisely to center rearward pulling motion...

and use good stable two handed stance with balance forward.. boom

I can get 15 shots inside the 8 ring on a standard pistol target at 10-15 yards with mine no sweat. 147 grain handloads and 125 grain commercial 9mm.
 
TDC said:
Don't mean to keep you all waiting.

The results posted are entirely user error. The grip size is a BS excuse for poor fundamentals. That pattern at 5 yards slow fire is not equipment related regardles of calibre. After viewing all the attached photos there is a noticeable trend to the left and low. That's a flinch. The one pic of a completely scattered pattern I suspect was the group you shot last?(http://imgur.com/c4xIc). I say that because it has all the signs of poor fundamentals combined with fatigue and frustration.

TDC
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I strongly agree. New unfamiliar gun... need practice and master the pistol. Lots of good info in this thread for the OP to better himself with.
 
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Canuck44 said:
Agreed. With practice he will improve. Installing the right grip for him will solve some of his problems even if TDC doesn'r think so. Of course he also thinks target sights just make up for poor fundamentals and a trigger job is a waste so what do thosands of shooter not to mention Olympic carded shooters know.

Take Care

Bob
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I'm sorry Bob, I forgot to mention. I couldn't give a flying f&*k what Olympic shooters do or don't do. They aren't interested in defensive or combat based shooting and neither is their gear. Conversely, I'm not interested in shooting tiny tiny groups in paper at a pace that resembles that of growing grass. I've posted this before and I'll say it again for those who either missed it or are lacking in memory capacity. Trigger jobs can and do make a difference. However, the difference is only noticeable by very skilled shooters who don't have issues with flinching, trigger control, sight alignment, and grip. You know, the FUNDAMENTALS. Looking for that minute edge a lighter and/or shorter trigger pull may get you, tells me you're a gamer or your tactics suck. Either way, I don't really care. Watch the video below and tell me if a stock trigger and stock gun is slowing these shooters down. Both make effective hits in scary fast times, guess they don't need fancy triggers or target adjustable sights.

[youtube]JbC5mEc6ipE[/youtube]

[youtube]qU3jceN4JAc[/youtube]

TDC
 
Sinasta said:
Doesnt matter as I said. There are some full size M&P that have "accuracy" issues at 25 yards. This guy is shooting that pattern at 5 yards. Read it again FIVE. It is all user error.
Click to expand...

Have to agree.

I love those videos, they make it look so easy, but I'm still running 8's on FAST and feeling like my hair's on fire.
 
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TDC said:
Don't mean to keep you all waiting.

The results posted are entirely user error. The grip size is a BS excuse for poor fundamentals. That pattern at 5 yards slow fire is not equipment related regardles of calibre. After viewing all the attached photos there is a noticeable trend to the left and low. That's a flinch. The one pic of a completely scattered pattern I suspect was the group you shot last?(http://imgur.com/c4xIc). I say that because it has all the signs of poor fundamentals combined with fatigue and frustration.

TDC
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Actually no, I believe the one you liked to was one of the first targets I fired after firing the .40 or .45. It was near the end when my groupings started moving to the bottom left of the target.
 
TDC said:
I'm sorry Bob, I forgot to mention. I couldn't give a flying f&*k what Olympic shooters do or don't do. They aren't interested in defensive or combat based shooting and neither is their gear. Conversely, I'm not interested in shooting tiny tiny groups in paper at a pace that resembles that of growing grass. I've posted this before and I'll say it again for those who either missed it or are lacking in memory capacity. Trigger jobs can and do make a difference. However, the difference is only noticeable by very skilled shooters who don't have issues with flinching, trigger control, sight alignment, and grip. You know, the FUNDAMENTALS. Looking for that minute edge a lighter and/or shorter trigger pull may get you, tells me you're a gamer or your tactics suck. Either way, I don't really care. Watch the video below and tell me if a stock trigger and stock gun is slowing these shooters down. Both make effective hits in scary fast times, guess they don't need fancy triggers or target adjustable sights.

[youtube]JbC5mEc6ipE[/youtube]

[youtube]qU3jceN4JAc[/youtube]

TDC
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TDC how many folks on this forum do you think can shoot like the robots in the video? Answer is none. For playing action shooting sports such as IPSC and IDPA a crisp, light trigger pull is a real benefit for the longer shots for the mortals among us. As to grip for the action spots in particular grip size can have an impact for shooters with either long or short fingers. Too the angle of the grips on some guns promote either a high or low sight picture which will influence how a shooter manages his gun while shooting quickly. If you think the average shooter going into Cowboy Action shooting isn't going to benefit from a well tuned lever gun vs an out of the box gun you really should get out more. Action jobs on shotguns can improve scoring as well.

None of this likely has much interest to you given your need for combat training for dealing with the end of the world scenarios so popular among those who practice the black art.

As to your flying your #### in your virgin world of shooting I don't enjoy shooting Bullseye either or any of the Olympic style shooting sports primarily because I don't have the skill level to do so. I suspect even at your young age you don't have the skill sets to compete in those challenging sports either. Instead of mouthing off about how boring they are you might want to acknowledge your limited skill sets when it comes to placing rounds down range accurately and leave those with real talent to their chosen shooting discipline.

Lastly, if you think David Savigny doesn't have his competition guns worked over thoroughly then you really do live on another planet.
Here is what you posted a few posts back: "Sorry, gip size is BS. Sure, a more "comfortable" grip may allow for better performance for a novice with no clue what they're doing. it will aid you only so far with regards to performance. However, anyone who understands and can apply the fundamentals will be able to shoot any pistol just as consistently as the next. Slip on grips, adjustable grips, target sights, trigger jobs, are all crutches for poor form and fundamentals."

Now you say only the top shooters benefit from a trigger job...which is it?

Take Care


Bob
 
@rxanderq. Have you had a chance to try out a few of the things people have mentioned as far as tips/dry firing practice go? Have you noticed a change or difference?
 
Re: Grip size.

We had a pistol clinic at the CQB shoot at Camp Borden. I was able to shoot very tight and centered groups on slow fire, but my rapid fire groups shifted to the left by about 6" (Bull is 2" wide.)

The instructor noted than on slow fire I used the pad of my finger, but for rapid fire I used the joint. This shifted the group. I then changed my grip so that I always used the pad of my finger on the trigger.

More recently I tried shooting a M&P for CQB. It has a small, medium and large backstrap to choose from. I found that the medium allowed me to use the pad of my finger more easily and my groups are now more reliable.

Any attempt at shooting good groups will fail unless the basics are learned, which includes a good focus on the front sight and a trigger release that does not twitch the gun. A good trigger, sharp sights (I need a wider notch or more narrow front sight, due to old eyes) and a grip that suits the hand will not solve any problems, but they will help the basics, if the basics are being learned.

If a shooter does not get good coaching, he is getting good at shooting poorly.

OP - have you asked a known good shooter to try your pistol? I don't care where it shoots, but he should be able to get a good group.
 
Jeffdepartie said:
@rxanderq. Have you had a chance to try out a few of the things people have mentioned as far as tips/dry firing practice go? Have you noticed a change or difference?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not, it may be a while before I find the time to go to the range any time soon.
I do plan on picking up some snap caps soon for dry firing practice.
I did change the grip to a small but i did not notice much of a difference when holding it, maybe it will feel different when I actually pull the trigger.
 
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