So true. I bought my 1st gold for 1300 and change when they 1st came out and two years later found a second with 13 shells through it in the original box etc for 800.
Pricing on used shotguns?
- Thread starter s2photo
- Start date
So true. I bought my 1st gold for 1300 and change when they 1st came out and two years later found a second with 13 shells through it in the original box etc for 800.
Well at the moment they're still there.
Mostly this post was to see if its reasonable to base any values of firearms off of American pricing.
They have several easy to navigate websites that not only show asking prices - but final sold prices. Also I like the idea of "blue book" values. It's used in many other industries (used cars come to mind) why not guns.
I get they're just a starting point, but its better than nothing.
No, it's not reasonable because they are not a commodity that can cross the border for free. Also, completely different levels of manufacturer availability and manufacturer customer support. Pricing here is whatever guys will pay for them, and is not influenced by USA prices.
Mount Sweetness
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Ontario
First thing to do is FORGET ABOUT THE SELLING PRICES IN THE STATES.
Look at the price your seller is asking, if you do not offer relatively close to the asking price you will not be purchasing that gun. If the asking price is outrageous do not even bother.
If it is a gun that you really want...buy it fast! I'LL TAKE IT!!!
Look at the price your seller is asking, if you do not offer relatively close to the asking price you will not be purchasing that gun. If the asking price is outrageous do not even bother.
If it is a gun that you really want...buy it fast! I'LL TAKE IT!!!
Oh my God. You obviously don't buy a lot of guns or like getting screwed with those recommendations. I would go without first.
"Really good deals..." , underpriced guns where owners have either not taken the time to research the market or are desperate for cash.
Either way the lucky buyer who's the one trolling the EE at the time will inevitably brag about how little he paid for said purchase on a later post.
"Way overpriced..." owners have either not taken the time to research the market, initially overpaid for the gun and want to pass it forward, or, not in a hurry to sell the gun and are trolling for desperate buyers. Here too, the asking price will be belittled on posts, usually by buyers that lost the chance at a "really good deal"...
Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of Sellers and Buyers do not fall in any of the two above categories.
Either way the lucky buyer who's the one trolling the EE at the time will inevitably brag about how little he paid for said purchase on a later post.
"Way overpriced..." owners have either not taken the time to research the market, initially overpaid for the gun and want to pass it forward, or, not in a hurry to sell the gun and are trolling for desperate buyers. Here too, the asking price will be belittled on posts, usually by buyers that lost the chance at a "really good deal"...
Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of Sellers and Buyers do not fall in any of the two above categories.
Keep in mind also that the used market is a completely different animal than the new market. For example:
I could go on, but the point is that the used market involves many more factors than the new market and the two can't always be compared straight across. There are also many who don't recognise all of the above factors and simply have a mistaken impression of why other pieces that are for sale are worth more than theirs. Those folks may price their items too high simply because they have an inflated impression of the used market overall, based on not knowing the reasons for the valuations.
And, always remember, you have to judge each firearm on it's own merits. Not every Holland and Holland is worth what is being asked for it and not every Baikal is worth only $300. Precious few makers use only one grade of steel. Many times the steel used in a particular gun is stamped on the barrels, precisely because it can vary. Individual guns may receive far more attention to fit and finish detail, including inlays and engraving. Regardless of how the gun started out, it's current condition is what controls the market price.
The ability to judge the value of a used gun requires intimate knowledge, not only of current models and values, but of the previous generations as well. It requires also the ability to accurately judge the condition of a piece, knowledge of repair and/or refinishing costs, and availability of ammunition and reloading supplies.
I suspect some of the instances of high prices in the EE are exactly as you suspect - over priced. Many others, though, are simply a case of the potential buyer not knowing the true value of the item. And, don't forget, different items have different values to different people based solely on their individual preferences.
My own bias is heavily in favor of used. For my money, there is seldom anything a new gun can do that a vintage gun can't do better - not because quality new guns aren't currently being produced for every purpose, but because energy and labour costs being what they are these days, the cost of producing equivalent guns today is high. And, therefore, the prices of modern quality firearms are extremely high. Used guns of the same high quality are available, if you have the knowledge and the patience needed to find them. They are relatively cheaper only because of their reduced value as used and the additional risk inherent in buying used.
- many used models are no longer available new (or in short supply)
- many new versions of previous models are of inferior quality to the original
- some used guns are one-of-a-kind and can't be sourced new
- used guns are always "in stock"
- new models are seldom "rare" and, even if they are, the price is predetermined, not based entirely on demand
- unfortunately, too many used firearm sellers think what they paid for a piece and any improvements they made are relevant to the resale value. They are not. A new buyer only cares about what he gets for his/her money. What the seller paid or overpaid is irrelevant.
- sellers of used guns often have an emotional attachment to the gun being sold (in such cases, the gun should be retained and not sold). New gun sellers want to sell guns, they seldom get attached to them (and should buy them personally if they do).
- used guns can have "provenance". This is to say, they can have been used by famous or important historical figures, or they can be a model that was historically significant. New guns are just an object. To collectors, the provenance can sometimes account for more of the value than the piece itself. Imagine the value of the ordinary service rifle that was used by Lee Harvey Oswald!
I could go on, but the point is that the used market involves many more factors than the new market and the two can't always be compared straight across. There are also many who don't recognise all of the above factors and simply have a mistaken impression of why other pieces that are for sale are worth more than theirs. Those folks may price their items too high simply because they have an inflated impression of the used market overall, based on not knowing the reasons for the valuations.
And, always remember, you have to judge each firearm on it's own merits. Not every Holland and Holland is worth what is being asked for it and not every Baikal is worth only $300. Precious few makers use only one grade of steel. Many times the steel used in a particular gun is stamped on the barrels, precisely because it can vary. Individual guns may receive far more attention to fit and finish detail, including inlays and engraving. Regardless of how the gun started out, it's current condition is what controls the market price.
The ability to judge the value of a used gun requires intimate knowledge, not only of current models and values, but of the previous generations as well. It requires also the ability to accurately judge the condition of a piece, knowledge of repair and/or refinishing costs, and availability of ammunition and reloading supplies.
I suspect some of the instances of high prices in the EE are exactly as you suspect - over priced. Many others, though, are simply a case of the potential buyer not knowing the true value of the item. And, don't forget, different items have different values to different people based solely on their individual preferences.
My own bias is heavily in favor of used. For my money, there is seldom anything a new gun can do that a vintage gun can't do better - not because quality new guns aren't currently being produced for every purpose, but because energy and labour costs being what they are these days, the cost of producing equivalent guns today is high. And, therefore, the prices of modern quality firearms are extremely high. Used guns of the same high quality are available, if you have the knowledge and the patience needed to find them. They are relatively cheaper only because of their reduced value as used and the additional risk inherent in buying used.
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That right there is why I'd love it if there was some merit of "book value" here in Canada. With quite a few manufactures, you can look up or determine exactly what model and year you are dealing with by serial numbers. So if that could be determined, as well as condition... well then that would seem to take some of the guess work out of both pricing for sellers, and guidelines for buyers of whats fair and reasonable for a particular firearm. Because someone who knows presumably much more than I do has done the research. They know that a "Whiz-Bang 270" is a rare and collectable gun, or that hundreds of thousands were made. Or that the older manufacturing process was better. That Whiz-Bang's used to be made with a Chopper-Lump and now they're a mono block etc..
I can also appreciate that a Holland and Holland that has been used as a fire poking stick and then submerged in a lake for several years might be worth less than a Baikal. And that each firearm should stand on its own and be valued as such. But guidelines would be really helpful.
For a relatively new used gun (say within the last 25 years) I doubt any of the ads on the EE with 5 or more bumps are simply people not appreciating their worth. Unless they are just really high end guns to start with (less buyers) then I'd suspect they are just overpriced. I can specifically think of at least one ad that is for a used gun that is very much still in production where the seller is asking about $150 more than the retail price (including taxes). I suppose his individual preference is to clog up the EE with listings that will never sell.
Thanks everyone for your opinions, I'm learning that the used market is a different animal altogether. I like the idea of used, and would agree with this statement
So, patience it is, and gathering more knowledge. For now the gun fund gets a chance to grow.
NO way! The first one -- Firearms Canada is my primary source, actually. I but and sell all the time and all my listings are there 
But to your point, the best way to buy guns inexpensively is through a gun auction, an estate, or at a gun show.
NO way! The first one -- Firearms Canada is my primary source, actually. I but and sell all the time and all my listings are there
Why am I not suprised
Well not too many places I have not tried in 40 years of haggling in firearms and nothing beats the EE on this site. The odds of getting screwed are off the charts on your primary source. But if you are buying a handful so what. Try 25-100 or so a year like many guys here buy and then tell me about firearms canada. NOT
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Gun shows are rarely the cheapest place to purchase firearms.
NO way! The first one -- Firearms Canada is my primary source, actually. I but and sell all the time and all my listings are there
Firearms Canada has more scams than any site that I have heard of.
I bow to your experience, 3macs1.
On the side note, would you kindly go to Semi-auto B guns -- 391, Maxus, SBE forum and respond to my kind request there? I need more of your professional opinion on the SX3 vs. Maxus, please.
Thank you.
On the side note, would you kindly go to Semi-auto B guns -- 391, Maxus, SBE forum and respond to my kind request there? I need more of your professional opinion on the SX3 vs. Maxus, please.
Thank you.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
If your offers are generally rejected, then yes, they're too low, evidently. There's no set percentage you can deduct to obtain used gun values, each one is different. Check new prices at dealers in Canada and then make an offer based on your comfort level.
Of course, there are those buyers who never want to pay an asking price, regardless of how low it is.
\
Not asking you to bow , maybe slow down your yapper and open your ears to those that have been in the game a long time. Making comments that firearms canada is the spot to buy guns is insane.
Have no time to do a comparision and I am not a professional just an owner, handle both and what ever fits better and is in your budget go with. Both are good guns.
Thank God you chimed in I thought I was missing something. I got screwed after 2 purchases there and never again. Well over many times that here on the EE in 2.5 years and all have been a positive experience. Gun shows are unreal for being out of wack at least here.
take care
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Thank you for your quick response.
Can't slow down my yapper though. I'm a proactive chap and that's in my nature. The nature of a scorpion is to sting and you can't change that just like my yapping
But in all honesty I believe Firearms Canada has a way better user interface and functionality than GunNutz (subjective opinion, of course). Easier to post items there, easier to edit, delete, etc. Got more sold there than anywhere else.
Can't slow down my yapper though. I'm a proactive chap and that's in my nature. The nature of a scorpion is to sting and you can't change that just like my yapping
But in all honesty I believe Firearms Canada has a way better user interface and functionality than GunNutz (subjective opinion, of course). Easier to post items there, easier to edit, delete, etc. Got more sold there than anywhere else.
I buy and sell many goods on our EE, as well as other places, and I have never been ripped off, but Firearms Canada is so full of scams, that I never even bother going to that site anymore. I was only on that site for a week, and in that time I turned in two scammers who apparently just keep returning under different usernames.
