Hypothetical .556/.223 Home Defence Rifle

raks said:
It may not be leagal but it is legal, please do your research. Note the Ian Thompson case already referenced in this thread.
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Oh sorry , ya i forgot ... It is " legal " to blow someones brains out in your living room with a rifle if you have 50k and 2 years of your life to tie up in a courtroom ! While risking 15 years in prison ... Thanks for that , Had completely slipped my mind !

i dont have to do any research, the laws in Canada are common knowledge

"The Criminal Code authorizes people to use as much force as necessary to protect themselves and their property," said RCMP Cpl. Patty Neely.

"However, that force must be the minimum amount necessary," said Neely.

It is not black and white weather or not you can kill someone in your home. Its your call and your life, You can end up in jail for life in this country for killing someone in your home. So if you do it ... its not like Texas ... You better have a god damn great lawyer !
 
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Steve Janes said:
Gunnerlove; Do you know of anywhere in Canada where I can order Black Hills ammo, such as mk262? It sure would be nice to have 300 or so rounds of it to sit on. But I don't even know if or where I could get any...
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You could make your own. You'll need to remove the bullet and powder out of a cartridge with a crimped primer, then re-fill it with approximately 24.0 grains of Ramshot TAC and top off with a 77 grain bullet with cannelure. You'll need the crimped primer, as the load is seriously hot (you'll be pushing 77gr of lead and copper at 2750 fps!). Probably wouldn't want to reload it too many times after that either.
 
pilot2001 said:
Oh sorry , ya i forgot ... It is " legal " to blow someones brains out in your living room with a rifle if you have 50k and 2 years of your life to tie up in a courtroom ! While risking 15 years in prison ... Thanks for that , Had completely slipped my mind !

i dont have to do any research, the laws in Canada are common knowledge

"The Criminal Code authorizes people to use as much force as necessary to protect themselves and their property," said RCMP Cpl. Patty Neely.

"However, that force must be the minimum amount necessary," said Neely.

It is not black and white weather or not you can kill someone in your home. Its your call and your life, You can end up in jail for life in this country for killing someone in your home. So if you do it ... its not like Texas ... You better have a god damn great lawyer !
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It's a bit silly for officers to make comments like that. Dead men tell no tales. If it's a violent intruder, it's probably better off that they end up dead instead of crippled and capable of lying about you as a witness for the crown on the stand.
 
the_klenzer said:
My neighbors wife prefers a bigger caliber than. 223... And she knows a thing or two about penetration.
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I_see_what_you_did_there_super.jpg
 
DaveMachine said:
I'll mail you some batteries for your sarcasm detector if you promise to calm down.
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I know sarcasm...and I also know the law....but comments like yours DO misinform those who haven't got a friggin clue wether you are being sarcastic or not...as they don't know any better.

Oh look, here's two now:

pilot2001 said:
Being that it is not leagal to defend your home with a rifle in Canada ... This is a terrible thread.
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mattf87 said:
+1. Then the antis come and read this and have there next news reel
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We all know about the legalities of using a firearm for self defense, yada yada yada, and this is just another fantasy home defense thread. So let's stay in fantasy land for a bit and stay on topic cause I'm kinda interested in the ballistics side of things.

Since, I'm not a gangbanger, I would never use a 223 rifle/sbr/whatever for HD, since over penetration is such a huge factor. Don't need to pierce body armor and don't need the range. So shotgun or handgun makes sense.

But someone mentioned that LE entry teams (swat, ert, etc) are now using 223 SBR's instead of PCC's, which is true and says something about the round.

Maybe Mythbusters should do a show on this?
 
pilot2001 said:
Being that it is not leagal to defend your home with a rifle in Canada ... This is a terrible thread.
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Please stop making ignorant assertions. There have been multiple cases where people have defended themselves with firearms, and have either been acquitted of any wrongdoing, or not even charged. The key is to not use disproportionate force (i.e. only using deadly force when it is necessary to protect yourself or others from grievous bodily harm or death).

As for penetration, a .223 rifle, shotgun or a handgun round will penetrate multiple interior walls, so this discussion is really moot.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot12.htm
 
If I had to use a rifle for home defense, I would go with a pistol cql rifle like a 9mm saf Famae or similar. With 5.56 or similar, I would be concerned about over-penetration ofwalls and collateral damage. WEven with a 9, I would consider frangible ammo or reduced loads foe this reason. I only have to hit a target a few yards away and people are not grizzly bears.
 
Claven2 said:
If I had to use a rifle for home defense, I would go with a pistol cql rifle like a 9mm saf Famae or similar. With 5.56 or similar, I would be concerned about over-penetration ofwalls and collateral damage. WEven with a 9, I would consider frangible ammo or reduced loads foe this reason. I only have to hit a target a few yards away and people are not grizzly bears.
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According to this test:

230grain.com/showthread.php?65428-Ammunition-Drywall-Penetration-Analysis-Test-%28Adpat%29&

Some of the best loads you can use is certain expanding .223 as the high velocity causes significant break up of the bullet while traveling through the first wall, leading to minimal over penetration.
 
Steve Janes said:
Gunnerlove; Do you know of anywhere in Canada where I can order Black Hills ammo, such as mk262? It sure would be nice to have 300 or so rounds of it to sit on. But I don't even know if or where I could get any...
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I never thought about buying it.
I lucked out and was in the right place at the right time when I was given mine.
 
there is a lot more to home defence than round. many can control a .223 much better than a shotgun, making follow up shots or multiple perp shots more quickly accurately and affectively. no doubt 12 pellets to the chest from a shotie is hard on anyone, but to call it the all around ideal tool is a bit of a stretch to say the least. The noise of racking a pump is going to deter someone however.

New types of rounds available for a .223 make them great for use in urban combat which is exactly why most military, swat teams and now police forces either use them or are going to them. less collateral damage and great effectiveness. its very hard to beat for urban combat including defence.
 
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dizzy said:
there is a lot more to home defence than round. many can control a .223 much better than a shotgun, making follow up shots or multiple perp shots more quickly accurately and affectively. no doubt 12 pellets to the chest from a shotie is hard on anyone, but to call it the all around ideal tool is a bit of a stretch to say the least. The noise of racking a pump is going to deter someone.
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Agreed on the 223. Racking of the pump is good, but racking a round in a pistol or rifle is just as good too.

As Travis Haley would say, "I don't use a pump to scare somebody, I use a pump to shoot somebody".
 
Steve Janes said:
Gunnerlove; Do you know of anywhere in Canada where I can order Black Hills ammo, such as mk262? It sure would be nice to have 300 or so rounds of it to sit on. But I don't even know if or where I could get any...
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you can source Hornady Tap 55-75gr in both 223 and 5.56 if you buy Match its not cannelured the TAP is and performs like Black Hills, which is hard to source in Canada
 
I like the 590A1 idea, some might say I have that set up already. The Valtro would also be very suitable along the shotgun lines (my faith in Grizzly mag feds is 50-50, drawing from owning about 5). I still think it's faster to slap in a LAR mag, higher capacity and reloads quicker which is a reason I posed this hypothetical question.

I know with recent firearm events people are more worried than they have been in a long time which is why i'm investing more in non restricteds in the future but to each their own and other viewpoints are a great way to learn.
 
It would seem that many people have never tried shooting various pistol calibers at 2 or more layers of drywall and then tried the same exercise with various 223. Personally, I would take the 223 with a light weight, plastic tip bullet, if I was concerned about over penetration. And if deadly force was required to protect myself or my family, deadly force would be used.
 
If you choose a shotgun for home defense, you might choose inappropriate ammunition. If you choose a pistol for home defense, you might choose inappropriate ammunition. If you choose a rifle for home defense, you might choose inappropriate ammunition. The best answer is to choose ammunition that is appropriate to your circumstances, for use in your home defense gun, whatever that gun might be; but you might have to use the ammo that is at hand right now, today. If over penetration poses a danger due to the proximity of neighbors, or to family members in other parts of the home when the action starts, it is then prudent to adjust your angle of fire to mitigate that danger. A shot made at a standing adversary from a kneeling, sitting, or prone position, should keep the trajectory of the exiting bullet well above anyone who might be in the near range, danger zone. This applies to all firearms, not just to rifles, as the projectile from any firearm can pass through the intended target, or worse, in the heat of the moment, you might miss. Where then does the bullet go? Better it causes a problem on a rainy day, then injuries someone unintentionally.
 
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