I have just loaded and tried Varget powder and 165gr Nosler Part bullets for my .308 Browning BLR which I believe is a 19.5" barrel. The results vary, and I am wondering what loads have worked best for others with a short barreled .308 rifle and Varget with 165gr bullets? I can see 44.0grs are not too bad grouping and the 46.0grs are also not bad. Nosler manual shows 44.0grs as their most accurate load tried for the 165gr Partition. Any thoughts?
.308 Short Barrel Varget Loads?
- Thread starter Nosler06
- Start date
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- Alta/Sask Border Country
I've been dabbling with reloading .308 lately. I've only worked up one batch so far, but I found that out of 40gn , 41gn, 42gn, 43gn, and 43.5gn, the 40gn grouped the best.
The surplus ammo I was shooting did good groupings and only had 40gn of powder. What I am learning as that 'more is not necessarily' better.
My next work-up will be 39, 39.5, 40, 40.5
The surplus ammo I was shooting did good groupings and only had 40gn of powder. What I am learning as that 'more is not necessarily' better.
My next work-up will be 39, 39.5, 40, 40.5
I found out that with barrel 20 inch (Nemesis and Steyr Scout) the R-15 pushing 165 gr will give me a gain of almost 100 fps without accuracy lost or increase pressure for comparable published load...
The Reloader serie is a powder that is more homogenius from batch to batch... The good old Varget can be very deceptive from load to load, that why i advised, if you want to stick with Varget buying a minimun 8 pounds at the time of the same batch so you can build without changes... JP.
The Reloader serie is a powder that is more homogenius from batch to batch... The good old Varget can be very deceptive from load to load, that why i advised, if you want to stick with Varget buying a minimun 8 pounds at the time of the same batch so you can build without changes... JP.
Short barrel loads? It was proven long ago that the load that produces the highest MV with a "long" barrel will produce the highest MV with a "short" barrel. The most accurate load will depend in large part on the gun. I've always used a max load of Varget (46.0 grs with a 155) in my 308's, but I must try the Reloders at some point (RL15 and RL17).
"I believe it depends on the twist rate. A tight twist requires a lighter bullet. If the twist is long, then heavier will work. Then again, I'm no expert and someone may call me for BS"
BS
You have it backwards. A heavy (long) bullet requires a faster twist. But you have to be getting into unusual bullets to have a twist problem. Like a 210g VLD.
I agree with the observation about that load looking hot. FWIW I get excellent results with RL15.
OP, VArget is a good powder. Start with a START load and test in 0.5 g increments to get a feel what the rifle likes.
BS
You have it backwards. A heavy (long) bullet requires a faster twist. But you have to be getting into unusual bullets to have a twist problem. Like a 210g VLD.
I agree with the observation about that load looking hot. FWIW I get excellent results with RL15.
OP, VArget is a good powder. Start with a START load and test in 0.5 g increments to get a feel what the rifle likes.
Thanks guys. That being said the reason for the Varget switch and not Reloader15 was availablity. Being in a small town and the local gun shop an hour drive they always had Varget. I may in the future try Reloader15 and see what it is like. The Nosler#7 manual has a start load for Varget at 42.0grs for 165gr Partitions. They are showing a MV of 2662 and 94% volume and the max load is 46.0grs and a MV of 2820 and 103% volume. I have never tried loading lower than the start point in a manual before. 40.0grs sounds a fair bit lower than their start point.
hometownhero
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For a 165gr bullet hodgdon lists 42 as a min and 46 as max. 44 is still 2 grains of max. For a 155gr bullet they list 44 as min and 47 as max.
I'm using a loading similar to OP's in .308 Win with Varget and 165g Nosler Ballistic Tips. I've used it in a 20" barreled Ruger bolt action rifle.
Lots of Varget do vary in burn rate, so start low and work up.
Lots of Varget do vary in burn rate, so start low and work up.
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I keep hearing than Varget varies from lot to lot. I switched over from IMR 4895 to Varget as soon as Varget hit the shelves in Canada. I go through 8-10 lbs of Varget every year using it in both .308 and .223 rifles. I have zeros for ranges from 300 yards to 1000 yards. Short range (300 yard) zeros never change and long range zeros (800-1000 yards) might be off by +/- 1/2 moa. The difference in the long range zeros may have more to do with light conditions (using iron sights) or wind conditions, other than the varible burn rate I keep hearing about different lots of Varget.
How can this be true?
If the powder doesn't fully burn by the time the bullet exits the barrel you may be better served with a slightly faster powder.
Not quite on topic, but almost - I have an 18" Remington Model 7 that I almost sold because I didn't feel it shot well enough. After trying the recipes that all the 'experts' recommended, I tried plain old IMR-4064 and started getting 1.5 MOA groups. Then, because I have a whole bunch, I tried Sierra 220 gr. RN bullets - and started getting sub MOA groups, at 2325 ft/sec.
That might not impress the hyper-velocity crowd, but it impresses the hell out of anything that gets in front of it. Now I wouldn't part with that short handy little rifle for anything.
In my experience the greatest velocity difference between long barrelled & short barrelled rifles is found with lighter bullets. The velocity difference decreases as bullet weights increase.
My point is, you really need to try several powder and bullet combinations to find the best accuracy in any rifle. In my perception, Varget and IMR-4064 are nearly ballistic twins. Varget may be marketed as more 'temperature stable', but there has been much talk of lot-to-lot variation. I have only used a couple of pounds, so I can't say one way or the other. IMR-3031 is another excellent powder in .308, and was a standby for decades.... and just because something is out of fashion doesn't mean it magically stopped working. A friend of mine gets astonishing accuracy in his .308 with one of the VV powders (I'm not even going to try to spell it). Again, it all depends on whether your objective is accuracy or velocity, or a balance between the two that satisfies you.
I personally favor heavy bullets, give great importance to accuracy, and care for velocity only enough to understand a given bullets trajectory. Another excellent .308 load has always been 44 gr. of IMR-4064 with most 180 gr. bullets. Start at 40 gr. and work your way up; I don't want to be responsible for giving your rifle a hernia.
These are simply personal observations. As always, your mileage may vary.
That might not impress the hyper-velocity crowd, but it impresses the hell out of anything that gets in front of it. Now I wouldn't part with that short handy little rifle for anything.
In my experience the greatest velocity difference between long barrelled & short barrelled rifles is found with lighter bullets. The velocity difference decreases as bullet weights increase.
My point is, you really need to try several powder and bullet combinations to find the best accuracy in any rifle. In my perception, Varget and IMR-4064 are nearly ballistic twins. Varget may be marketed as more 'temperature stable', but there has been much talk of lot-to-lot variation. I have only used a couple of pounds, so I can't say one way or the other. IMR-3031 is another excellent powder in .308, and was a standby for decades.... and just because something is out of fashion doesn't mean it magically stopped working. A friend of mine gets astonishing accuracy in his .308 with one of the VV powders (I'm not even going to try to spell it). Again, it all depends on whether your objective is accuracy or velocity, or a balance between the two that satisfies you.
I personally favor heavy bullets, give great importance to accuracy, and care for velocity only enough to understand a given bullets trajectory. Another excellent .308 load has always been 44 gr. of IMR-4064 with most 180 gr. bullets. Start at 40 gr. and work your way up; I don't want to be responsible for giving your rifle a hernia.
These are simply personal observations. As always, your mileage may vary.
308win Varget & H 4895
Picked up a older Rem 700 HV 24" in extremely nice condition, got Ian Robertson to bore scope barrel throat and muzzle where excellent gun has not fired a lot.
I used to shooter Hunter Benchrest in .308win with 168gr Sierra MK and the load most everyone shot was 40gr - or + of H 4895 & Imr 4895 and some used IMR 4064 as well
Only had enough H 4895 powder to load 8 rounds to get on paper and fire 1 5 shot group, Fellow was telling me that Varget was best powder in .308 for accuracy
40gr & 168gr Sierras. as you will see in photo loaded 39.5gr, 40,40.5 and 41gr.
Varget did not work well in my gun, possible with more testing it could be good ? I know fellow shooting 155.5 gr Bergers with Varget ( full case) in a 30" barrel
at 3040fps and its very very accurate. I was wanting a soft load for 100 to 300y benchshooting.
first target above sighter target has 4 in one hole measured .070" and the one that got away.
Picked up a older Rem 700 HV 24" in extremely nice condition, got Ian Robertson to bore scope barrel throat and muzzle where excellent gun has not fired a lot.
I used to shooter Hunter Benchrest in .308win with 168gr Sierra MK and the load most everyone shot was 40gr - or + of H 4895 & Imr 4895 and some used IMR 4064 as well
Only had enough H 4895 powder to load 8 rounds to get on paper and fire 1 5 shot group, Fellow was telling me that Varget was best powder in .308 for accuracy
40gr & 168gr Sierras. as you will see in photo loaded 39.5gr, 40,40.5 and 41gr.
Varget did not work well in my gun, possible with more testing it could be good ? I know fellow shooting 155.5 gr Bergers with Varget ( full case) in a 30" barrel
at 3040fps and its very very accurate. I was wanting a soft load for 100 to 300y benchshooting.
first target above sighter target has 4 in one hole measured .070" and the one that got away.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
+1 to Andy's remarks.
With typical sensible rifle loads, the "all-burnt" point for the powder happens after 4-8" of bullet travel. It's a pretty unusual rifle that has a barrel less than 10", so for practical purposes one can say that for any sensible rifle cartridge loading, the powder is completely burnt even in a very shot barrel.
Powders that work well with long barrelled rifles, tend to produce equally good results with short barrelled rifles - though short barrelled rifles are a lot louder (for one thing, the bullet exits when the barrel is at a higher pressure, so the noise really is louder; for another thing, that noise is closer to the shooter). Some powders, depending on their additives, might also exhibit moderate or large amounts of "flash" with shorter-barrelled rifles.
Varget works great in short and long barrelled .308s. So does H4895 and IMR4895, and Re-15, and N140, and... well, just about any medium-burn-rate powder will likely give you pretty darn good results.
If you want full power ammo in your 19.5" BLR and if you find Varget etc to give you just too much muzzle blast, you could try one of the quicker powders, for example H322. A max-pressure load of it will likely also shoot very well for you, and although you might give up 100fps or 150fps of muzzle velocity you might end up with a noticeably more comfortable (less muzzle blast).
I find that the Hodgdon loading data is some of the hottest (i.e. *least* conservative) of load data out there. Don't assume that it's been lawyered-up and that of course you can exceed published max by several grains without getting into trouble. A lot of the published Hodgdon load data looks awfully darn hot to me. One load that I've found to work well for me is about 46.4 grains of Varget with an old (#2155) Sierra 155. This produces about 3025fps in a 30" barrelled target rifle, which is a full-power load in my books (it's also wonderfully accurate and pretty tolerant of minor variations in powder charges; I will shoot 1000 yard matches with thrown charges of this load).
