Arma-Coat illegal in IPSC Production?
- Thread starter Fergus Kahn
- Start date
As I understand it IPSC had an issue; a huge amount of pistols were being created that didn't fit their division structure.
So they needed to figure out how to be more inclusive- equipment wise and they decided to create a new division that they called Production.
The idea was to keep it all stock pistols- DA first shot.
Great, excludes the 1911 & opens up a division for the DA platforms (largely Glocks at the time).
Fast forward a few years and through various rules changes plus the reality that several manufacturers are making alternate OFM parts to give their pistols a competitive edge (percieved largely) and the notion of keeping the division "stock" is laughable.
As for the RO's my position is they have been confronted with multiple rule changes and a flood of alternate, "is it legal" parts. Add to this they have another new division to learn (classic) and many of them have limited interest out side of their chosen division (and limited time / interest to brush up). RO courses come up now and again but how many RO tune up courses have you seen lately?
As far as "Production" is concerned I say give in to the gamers (its not like it isn't happenening to some degree anyway) and simplify it for everyone:
-DA first shot with "X" trigger pull - hammer down.
-Min SA trigger pull.
-No optics.
-No comp.
-Same rig placement as standard.
-Must fit in the box with magazine (even if its a Production specific box).
-Everyone scores minor.
We're done.
Enjoy, shoot 'em if ya got 'em.
I don't see why I should care that you painted your gun, changed some springs or barrel, have aftermarket base pads on factory mags or put on some different grips.
The winners will still win, my bet is guys with stock equipment would still have more than a shot to win and the most pimped out guns would be in C class...
These are just my opinions and you know what they say about that,lol.
So they needed to figure out how to be more inclusive- equipment wise and they decided to create a new division that they called Production.
The idea was to keep it all stock pistols- DA first shot.
Great, excludes the 1911 & opens up a division for the DA platforms (largely Glocks at the time).
Fast forward a few years and through various rules changes plus the reality that several manufacturers are making alternate OFM parts to give their pistols a competitive edge (percieved largely) and the notion of keeping the division "stock" is laughable.
As for the RO's my position is they have been confronted with multiple rule changes and a flood of alternate, "is it legal" parts. Add to this they have another new division to learn (classic) and many of them have limited interest out side of their chosen division (and limited time / interest to brush up). RO courses come up now and again but how many RO tune up courses have you seen lately?
As far as "Production" is concerned I say give in to the gamers (its not like it isn't happenening to some degree anyway) and simplify it for everyone:
-DA first shot with "X" trigger pull - hammer down.
-Min SA trigger pull.
-No optics.
-No comp.
-Same rig placement as standard.
-Must fit in the box with magazine (even if its a Production specific box).
-Everyone scores minor.
We're done.
Enjoy, shoot 'em if ya got 'em.
I don't see why I should care that you painted your gun, changed some springs or barrel, have aftermarket base pads on factory mags or put on some different grips.
The winners will still win, my bet is guys with stock equipment would still have more than a shot to win and the most pimped out guns would be in C class...
These are just my opinions and you know what they say about that,lol.
I tried IPSC got tired of the foot stomping cry babies and stupid rules.
I travel south for 3gun now you can still get the moody type but most of the time all the guy's are great.
I tried a new team 3 gun match that a local club started and it's becoming my fav.
I also find the black badge course a joke.
I travel south for 3gun now you can still get the moody type but most of the time all the guy's are great.
I tried a new team 3 gun match that a local club started and it's becoming my fav.
I also find the black badge course a joke.
It's OK, not everyone passes the black badge on their first try. I am pretty sure your allowed to re challenge the test a few times. Go back and see your instructors and don't give up.
Actually the latest version of the BB course is pretty much a joke, I'm not sure why they bother at this point. Once they made the times so easy to achieve and removed the time requirements from exercises like the El pres it's not much of a challenge anymore. Pretty much just fill out the form, fire some ammo down range (take all the time you need we don't want you to feel bad about yourself) and here's your BB.
I thought you had to do the El Pres in 12 seconds? (Granted, this is an eternity...)
I thought the whole point of the time limits was to force you do have to do things under a minor amount of pressure, so that the course could shake out whether you were going to fall apart under pressure.
The aim of BB is not to make you a fast shooter... It's to ensure that you are a safe shooter during IPSC match. And you are not BB qualified until you safely competed in a Level II match.
How can you get people interrested in the sport otherwise?
I am lucky enough that my range is currently running 4 level II matches a year, one level III and one BB course a year. It brings a lot of new shooters
How can you get people interrested in the sport otherwise?
I am lucky enough that my range is currently running 4 level II matches a year, one level III and one BB course a year. It brings a lot of new shooters
No chance to get bumped in Standard... bumping is to Open Division. Unless you keep a colour copy of the "NEW" factory available colour in your range bag... Photoshop can help you to print it
No, it used to be 12, then they increased the time and now they have removed it altogether.
And you're right the times were to put the shooters under stress, now it's harder to predict how they will react on match day.
The BB course never made anyone a fast shooter. Twelve seconds on an El pres is a D class score.
And you can qualify at any sanctioned match, level 1 through 5 (thought its pretty unlikely you'd get a slot to a level V unless you have already been shooting awhile)
I don't see how fast a person does el prez matters for passing or failing the course. You are bringing people who are unfamiliar with action shooting sports and teaching them how to be safe. I feel safety comes first speed comes second. Last thing you want is someone putting a bullet in their foot because they are in a hurry. It's just bad for all of us. What the most important thing is that your enjoying yourself.
heavenIsAlie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Abbotsford
the time requirement is to induce stress, which you will have alot of at a match. You would be surprised what bringing a timer out and recording times does to new shooters who are perfectly safe and competent without the timer and recording
If you're thinking about getting started in IPSC, don't sweat the equipment details too much other than finding out which division your choice of firearm will be classified under.
Consulting with an experienced IPSC RO beforehand will help get that resolved fairly quickly.
Playing the equipment race game gets costly fast, and and creates a barrier for participating.
The most important thing is to get to matches and shoot. Initially *you* will be the primary person to compete with.
After you gain some experience you can decide which divisional direction you want to focus on.
Consulting with an experienced IPSC RO beforehand will help get that resolved fairly quickly.
Playing the equipment race game gets costly fast, and and creates a barrier for participating.
The most important thing is to get to matches and shoot. Initially *you* will be the primary person to compete with.
After you gain some experience you can decide which divisional direction you want to focus on.
I definetly don't want to get in to an equipment race, I am just getting started and am pretty novice shooter. IPSC just seems like something I want to get in to when the opportunity arrives. Being in NS I think the BB courses are few and far between but when it comes I like to have as much info as possible going in.
