Shooting technique

Tongarirohiker

Tongarirohiker

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Edmonton, AB
Hoping to get a few questions answered. The sheer amount of information available can be a bit confusing. I'm not looking for a novel, just some solid things to try on my next few range trips. I feel like I'm getting better but I haven't engaged anybody to coach me or anything like that.

1. When squeezing the trigger, what part of your finger is in contact with the trigger? The best way to describe how I'm doing it is, the part of my finger that would be in contact when I'm dialing the phone is what is in contact with my trigger.

2. What does your sight picture look like? I've heard that better shooters have both eyes open. I see some folks at the range with glasses where their weak eye is frosted over or taped over. Myself, I'm slightly squinting with my weak eye but it is never completely closed. Others say that they "see double" and aim with the image that is opposite their weak eye. What do you guys tend to do?

3. How do you mix things up so your range trips aren't always the same?

4. How tight of a grip do you have? Firm handshake? Loose like you have a small bird in your hands? Death grip?

5. What do you do with your left hand? I'm currently shooting with my left thumb tight to my right, but with the tip of my thumb resting underneath the slide. How hard are you gripping with this hand?

6. How do you practice quick, accurate follow up shots? I feel like this is one of those things that could end up leading to some bad habits. Reason I ask is that I plan on taking my Black Badge/doing IPSC in the near future and I wanna rock it.
 
Seek professional training. You can't learn to shoot by reading a book, watching a video, or self diagnosis. You don't know, what you don't know. Not the answer most want to hear but its the truth. That being said, I will give you the short answers to your questions.

1. If your gun is a single action or striker fired(Glock/M&P) you should be using the centre of the first pad on your finger. If its a DA gun(SIG) or similar you may need to use the first joint.

2.Both eyes open is ideal and provides a better view of the sights and your surroundings. If you can't do it, don't worry about it.

3. Start close in, like 3-5 yards. If you can't make consistent groups at these ranges, you're only wasting ammo further out. Look online for some drills, particularly those that work the fundamentals and DO NOT involve speed. Speed comes with consistency.

4. Grip should be firm enough that the gun does not move in your hand during recoil. If your finger nails are white or your hands are trembling, loosen up.

5. Adopt a leading thumbs grip and work through it. Its unnatural at first but it is the most effective recoil management grip possible. 50/50 grip strength, you're not gonna be able to differentiate much more one way or the other.

6. Stop worrying about impressing other people. Speed comes with consistency, and consistency comes with proper practice. You will never be fast from the start so don't even try it.

TDC
 
First off, don't try to rock it. For your bb and initial matches, take your time, learn to do it smoothly and don't try to rush it.
Lots of good vids on you tube that will help with techniques and different drills.
1 - the pad on your finger, not the crook
2 - make sure you get good sight picture, I find that when I'm trying to be too quick I'm cheating the sight picture and it costs me. Move fast shoot slow. I shoot with both eyes open, but I've seen lots with taped or frosted glasses. You'll have to try what works best for you.
3 - lots of different drills you can try, check you tube or google, though single lane indoor ranges are obviously going to constrictive
4 - I do firm handshake
5 - thumbs toward the target, 60/40% support hand/strong hand

Lots of dry fire drills that you can do that will help immensely, lots of drills on various pistol shooting sites and you tube.
Lastly take some pistol courses beyond the bb if you can, you will learn a lot and have a lot of fun
There's a lot to take in, don't rush it and and it will come together as your experience increases.
 
1) The pad of your finger should be centred on the trigger face.
2) I squint my weak eye, I don't have a strongly dominant right eye
3) I throw in as many variations as I can - some drills (pistol-training dot com is great for drills), different ranges and positions, and I try drills I'm familiar with while alternating strong and weak hands, or one handed only, or strong and weak handed, one handed alternating.
4) depends on the kind of shooting you do - many experts suggest squeezing til it shakes and then back off a little - so kind of death grip minus one
5) hold the pistol in your right hand, as high as you can get on the backstrap, thumb high (like it was sitting on a 1911 safety) - turn the gun so you can see the side, place your left hand in the places your right hand doesn't occupy. Two more things, when you press out (extend from compressed to firing position) make sure your wrist 'breaks'. That is to say your left thumb should point at the target, and your left (or support) fingers should point back and up at a 45 degree angle. The wrist thing is very important. Think of it as being the same as aiming a rifle, only real close together.
6) One shot at a time - get a clear sight picture that's 'close enough' for the accuracy you're trying to achieve, don't release the trigger all the way - just until it resets, and get a clean second press.
REMEMBER - acceptable accuracy depends on time, distance and required result.
 
TDC, thanks for the advice. I know that reading and watching a book is no replacement for proper training, and if you have some Edmonton-area recommendations, I'm happy to take them. It's also a matter of finding the time and lining up schedules. Real life gets in the way of hobbies. So, with that, I do what I can.

1. I'm shooting a CZ SP-01, 99% of the time shooting SA. Are you saying that shooting a DAO gun, you may want to use the first joint, or shooting any gun DA?

5. Are you talking about a thumbs forward grip? This is what I've been practicing. You're right, it screws with you at first, but the recoil control is excellent.

6. Sorry if it came across that way. I'm a golfer and as much as impressing people is great, I'm really just challenging and competing with myself. When I say I wanna rock it, I wanna know that I did the best I could.
 
Wow, great information everybody, and in the case of enefgee's recommendation on #3, a new resource. I don't want to sound like I want to shoot like a star in a bad action movie, and I appreciate the feedback on #6. Accuracy is key. A better way to phrase my question is, what do you do to work on reacquiring your sight picture quickly? How do you keep focus on that front sight and not refocus on the target or the rear sights? I find that is my biggest problem. First shot is great, but my eyes loose focus and it takes me some time to get back onto that front sight.
 
Depending on the distance to the target should determine where your focus should be. Close targets, your focus should be the front sight and the target/rear sights will be out of focus. For longer distance, your focus would be the target with your front and rear sight out of focus. For quick follow up shots, I think it takes practice to not instinctively look at the target immediately after looking for your shot placement but keep the focus on your front sight. Sort of like golf where you keep your head down past the impact and not try and sneak a peek of where the ball might go before you make impact during your swing. Start of slow and build up to speed. If you find that your shot pattern begins to open when you shoot faster, slow it back down to where your shots are tighter and build up speed from there and repeat.

If you can keep both eyes open, you have a larger larger field of vision (lack of a better term) and can see your next target in your peripheral vision which will help you anticipate the next set of shots quicker. For some people, keeping both eyes open under exertion and/or heavy concentration can cause ghosting or lack of visual focus and hence why some shooters put medical tape over their weak eye.

If you find you're fighting recoil you can try rolling your elbows outwards.

Pros, correct me if I'm wrong...
 
I find taunting the target is more important then your finger placement on the trigger......and remember....throw the bullets
 
1) right under the first joint
2)I can shoot with both open but prefer one shut, mainly you have to figure which eye is dominant then go with what works for you
3)reloading and load development
4)loose on rimfire and firm, not tight, on heavy calibers
5)I use a bean bag under the rear stock and squeeze to adjust elevation
6)I don't, I practice one shot one kill but I mainly shoot rifle

Revolver and auto require completely different techniques, best thing to do is get someone to coach you. You'll learn more about it faster than reading about it.



Tongarirohiker said:
Hoping to get a few questions answered. The sheer amount of information available can be a bit confusing. I'm not looking for a novel, just some solid things to try on my next few range trips. I feel like I'm getting better but I haven't engaged anybody to coach me or anything like that.

1. When squeezing the trigger, what part of your finger is in contact with the trigger? The best way to describe how I'm doing it is, the part of my finger that would be in contact when I'm dialing the phone is what is in contact with my trigger.

2. What does your sight picture look like? I've heard that better shooters have both eyes open. I see some folks at the range with glasses where their weak eye is frosted over or taped over. Myself, I'm slightly squinting with my weak eye but it is never completely closed. Others say that they "see double" and aim with the image that is opposite their weak eye. What do you guys tend to do?

3. How do you mix things up so your range trips aren't always the same?

4. How tight of a grip do you have? Firm handshake? Loose like you have a small bird in your hands? Death grip?

5. What do you do with your left hand? I'm currently shooting with my left thumb tight to my right, but with the tip of my thumb resting underneath the slide. How hard are you gripping with this hand?

6. How do you practice quick, accurate follow up shots? I feel like this is one of those things that could end up leading to some bad habits. Reason I ask is that I plan on taking my Black Badge/doing IPSC in the near future and I wanna rock it.
Click to expand...
 
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Tongarirohiker said:
1. When squeezing the trigger, what part of your finger is in contact with the trigger?
Click to expand...

The center of the last joint of the finger. Think of driving a needle straight down, through the base of your finger nail. Where it comes out is the trigger contact.

Tongarirohiker said:
2. What does your sight picture look like? I've heard that better shooters have both eyes open. I see some folks at the range with glasses where their weak eye is frosted over or taped over. Myself, I'm slightly squinting with my weak eye but it is never completely closed. Others say that they "see double" and aim with the image that is opposite their weak eye. What do you guys tend to do?
Click to expand...

What is the distance? With iron sights at close distances <10m and fairly large targets ('A' zone), I keep both eyes open. Longer distances I close one eye. With a 'dot' type sight I keep both eyes open out to about 20m. But some guys do keep both eyes open all the time. I even know one guy that keeps both eyes completely open and unobstructed while rifle shooting, and he's better than me; but I really can't make that work.

Tongarirohiker said:
3. How do you mix things up so your range trips aren't always the same?
Click to expand...

Sometimes my range trips are the same. If I want to work on a single skill then that's all I do. Sometimes it's not about "fun", it's about the zen of the task. Doing the same thing over and over again until you really can do it in your sleep.

Tongarirohiker said:
4. How tight of a grip do you have? Firm handshake? Loose like you have a small bird in your hands? Death grip?
Click to expand...

What am I shooting?
- .38 spc wadcutters or really light 9mm loads? Just barely tight enough to prevent dropping it ('cause that's just too embarrassing). Srsly, look at how free-pistol shooters do it.
- .357M with a pf of 212? I hold on pretty tight. Also with stiffer recoil, make sure that your dominant hand is holding as high up on the grip as possible so that the recoil comes straight back and is absorbed by your hand and arm rather than being dissipated by flipping the muzzle.

Tongarirohiker said:
5. What do you do with your left hand? I'm currently shooting with my left thumb tight to my right, but with the tip of my thumb resting underneath the slide. How hard are you gripping with this hand?
Click to expand...

I'm an old-school "Left index finger on the trigger guard" shooter. Where my left thumb goes depends on the gun. On an auto, like a 1911, it sits sort of below and in front of my dominant thumb, which stays on the safety. With a revolver, it overlaps the dominant thumb, 'locking' it.
And I don't really "grip" with my left hand, I sort of hold it rigid, it's mostly applying "rearward" force against the forward thrust of my shooting hand.



Tongarirohiker said:
6. How do you practice quick, accurate follow up shots? I feel like this is one of those things that could end up leading to some bad habits.
Click to expand...

Slow is smooth... Smooth is fast.
Practice fast follow-up shots by practicing slow follow-up shots. But take the shot quickly as soon as the sight is where you want it. .... As in... take your first (carefully aimed) shot. Ride the recoil back, keeping the target firmly fixed in the center of your vision. Then slowly bring the pistol back into line between your eye and the target. As soon as the sight picture looks good enough, press the trigger again.
Repeat, many many times.
You might start off with 4 or 5 seconds between shots, and that's cool. After a couple reps, ask yourself how the last shot "felt", did you return the pistol to the line of sight smoothly and efficiently? Could you be smoother or more efficient? Are you anticipating the recoil in order to start bringing the pistol back faster (that's a bad thing!)? Work on being smooth, controlled and efficient. The speed will develop almost without any additional effort.
 
Splatter said:
The center of the last joint of the finger. Think of driving a needle straight down, through the base of your finger nail. Where it comes out is the trigger contact.
pad of the finger and press straight back, using the joint will steer the pistol as you pull the trigger
Click to expand...


What is the distance? With iron sights at close distances <10m and fairly large targets ('A' zone), I keep both eyes open. Longer distances I close one eye. With a 'dot' type sight I keep both eyes open out to about 20m. But some guys do keep both eyes open all the time. I even know one guy that keeps both eyes completely open and unobstructed while rifle shooting, and he's better than me; but I really can't make that work.



Sometimes my range trips are the same. If I want to work on a single skill then that's all I do. Sometimes it's not about "fun", it's about the zen of the task. Doing the same thing over and over again until you really can do it in your sleep.



What am I shooting?
- .38 spc wadcutters or really light 9mm loads? Just barely tight enough to prevent dropping it ('cause that's just too embarrassing). Srsly, look at how free-pistol shooters do it.
- .357M with a pf of 212? I hold on pretty tight. Also with stiffer recoil, make sure that your dominant hand is holding as high up on the grip as possible so that the recoil comes straight back and is absorbed by your hand and arm rather than being dissipated by flipping the muzzle.



I'm an old-school "Left index finger on the trigger guard" shooter. Where my left thumb goes depends on the gun. On an auto, like a 1911, it sits sort of below and in front of my dominant thumb, which stays on the safety. With a revolver, it overlaps the dominant thumb, 'locking' it.
And I don't really "grip" with my left hand, I sort of hold it rigid, it's mostly applying "rearward" force against the forward thrust of my shooting hand.

most people have given up on that grip a long time ago, the hands work much better when all the fingers are gripping the pistol grip. Make a fist with your hand and squeeze as tight as you can and see how it feels and then pull the index finger out of the fist and see what happens. You'll immediately feel the whole grip weaken. No push pull, both hands should be pushing forward
Click to expand...



Slow is smooth... Smooth is fast.
Practice fast follow-up shots by practicing slow follow-up shots. But take the shot quickly as soon as the sight is where you want it. .... As in... take your first (carefully aimed) shot. Ride the recoil back, keeping the target firmly fixed in the center of your vision. Then slowly bring the pistol back into line between your eye and the target. As soon as the sight picture looks good enough, press the trigger again.
Repeat, many many times.
slow is slow that quote is most often used by people who are not fast. If you want to develop speed you have to work in going fast. Do not ride the recoil up, this is such a hard thing to fix later. Just shoot the shot with a proper grip and stance and the gun should recover on its own.
Click to expand...
You might start off with 4 or 5 seconds between shots, and that's cool. After a couple reps, ask yourself how the last shot "felt", did you return the pistol to the line of sight smoothly and efficiently? Could you be smoother or more efficient? Are you anticipating the recoil in order to start bringing the pistol back faster (that's a bad thing!)? Work on being smooth, controlled and efficient. The speed will develop almost without any additional effort.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of good explanation in this video about shooting fast:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?client=mv-google&layout=mobile&v=YLRxohRdIys
 
love the "super mod." stance, BUT, you guys needs to have your XL pants hanging off your @ss, boxers have to be exposed out the tops, and sporting the double XL hoodie...
 
Trigger finger depends on the gun. For semi autos MOST of them shoot well for me with the trigger placed on the pad of my finger in a location opposite the bed of my finger nail. 1911's and a couple of others shoot well with the trigger on the pad opposite the center of my fingernail. Revolvers and a couple of my .22's with the triggers deeply curved and sitting well back almost in line with the front strap of the grips do best with the trigger right in the fold of the last joint.

Firm handshake for sure. You want some pressure to control the gun. Especially if IPSC/IDPA and other action shooting events are in your future. But if you hold it TOO hard you'll find that it's tough to separate your trigger finger motion from the rest of your hand. And shooting well is all about holding the gun in a firm stable manner where ONLY the trigger finger moves in TOTAL isolation from the rest of your hands and forearms. Don't just rest the support hand on your strong hand either. Wrap those fingers around and squeeze with firm but not uncomfortable pressure to push your strong hand fingers into the grip. You'll have a stronger and more firm grip that way without having to overgrip with your strong hand fingers and ruin your trigger finger isolation.

I know you said "don't write a book" but I found that using firm handshake like strength from BOTH hands so the pressure from the outer hand aids in the inner hand grip power without over powering it really helped my shooting a lot.

The other thing is to train yourself to not just shoot to the BANG! and suddenly let go. Instead train to pull the trigger back smoothly to its travel limit and HOLD it there. After the recoil you should still have the trigger held back. NOW you can ease off the pressure with the same control as you pulled with. When you do this correctly you'll easily feel the reset click. At that point you can reverse and pull back again for the next shot. No need to let the trigger go fully.

As mentioned the front sights are the key. Let the rear notch and distant target be a little fuzzy. Two eyes open and learn to use the correct double image and ignore the other THen it's simply hold the front sight picture as you build trigger pressure and move the trigger to the rear limit. Along the way the gun will go BANG! at some point.

Focusing on the smooth pull and training to pull the trigger to the rear limit also tends to remove your focus from the BANG! and developing a flinch to do with that focus. You won't do well at all if you have a flinch.

You Tube is loaded with good and bad videos on how to hold a handgun. But if you stick with videos from those high in competition standings and that run pro schools you'll get some great advice. Here's two which are excellent. The Todd Jarret one seems like a trailer for a video but it's loaded with lots of great hints on the basic hold technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

I hadn't seen the videos from Max Michel before but you can't argue with the success of someone on the Sig Sauer team that does well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgByPFHCpQE

In particular a point which is often missed is how the support hand angles down at the wrist to allow the hand to sit up higher in that opening. It feels odd to do it that way at first but it's a key part of getting the gun to sit down deeper in your overall grip and obtain better recoil management. But review the Max Michel video and notice how strongly his support hand is angled down and how his support hand thumb is pretty much in a straight line with his forearm.

Also another point he doesn't mention in this particular video is how his elbow are angled more or less outward instead of tucked in tight and pointed down. Keeping the elbows out a little really aids in stability during the rapid jumps between targets for keeping the gun and sight picture stable and quick to get the next shot off. It also tends to reduce the rise from the recoil.
 
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