M305 Bolt Failure

My norc m305 rocks. Everything is tight that should be tight, loose and slippery where appropriate, pings wonderfully, shoots 1.5-2 moa with glass and a boyds stock nothing more. My sights were straight and adjust properly, my gas block tight, my edges smooth, blah, blah, blah. I've fired 400~500 rounds through it, and it's a delight. Do I lose sleep because some are poopy? Nope. Some here think NEA is crap because of issues, some say glocks are kabooms waiting to happen, some say that sks's slamfire, some say that rugers can't shoot accurately, or that semi-automatic .22s are picky about ammo... All of these things are not valid in my experience, and I own them all, but that doesn't mean it isn't true for someone else. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me. I'v owned cars that had lemon reputations that treated me great too.

Having said that, I won't be shooting anything without safety gear, and care and attention. If something feels or sounds funny, stop and check it out before you continue. OP: glad your generally ok.
 
Ardent said:
I did, and same response I'm afraid. There are also far more Springfields here than you think. Three of us at work own M14s or multiples thereof, none of them Norcs. Springfields do go up for sale far less frequently, I'll give you that.
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I never said they were the same as any other manufacturer, I said they generally have more quality control issues than other manufacturers. I qualified that because I've seen some really dreadful quality control on some US-made guns lately, particularly a Marlin I bought and returned recently.

Safety inspections on Norcs won't always turn up issues. Mine all headspace within NATO no-go, are properly indexed, have no problems with bolt setback and have no "fire control issues". That's out of the box on all three. However, those issues are often present and should be inspected for.

Here's what I did before ever shooting my first two Norcs: I read every sticky here and everything else I could find; I tore them apart and visually inspected every component for obvious defects; I paid a gunsmith to inspect them as well, particularly to try to ensure that sear engagement, the safety, and the safety bridge were working properly; I borrowed a set of files like this one http://www.amazon.com/Flexbar-Hardness-Testing-File-Set/dp/B001CTI7TE from work to check for sub-par hardness on the bolt, receiver, barrel, gas tube, gas piston, op-rod, hammer, firing pin and sear; I checked the headspace to ensure that it was over NATO Go and under NATO No-Go; I checked bolt lug engagement to make sure it was even on both sides; I also performed a tilt test and function test.

When I bought my third one I skipped the gunsmith inspection, as I felt confident in my own observations by then. All three had been proof fired and included the fired casing and the tester's initials. I felt confident in them when I first fired them and now, many rounds later, I feel even more confident.

EDIT: I may be wrong about the Springfield numbers. I met a guy earlier this week who's father's owns a Springfield M1A with a receiver that broke apart during firing. Scary stuff.
 
Pop said:
I never said they were the same as any other manufacturer, I said they generally have more quality control issues than other manufacturers. I qualified that because I've seen some really dreadful quality control on some US-made guns lately, particularly a Marlin I bought and returned recently.

Safety inspections on Norcs won't always turn up issues. Mine all headspace within NATO no-go, are properly indexed, have no problems with bolt setback and have no "fire control issues". That's out of the box on all three. However, those issues are often present and should be inspected for.

Here's what I did before ever shooting my first two Norcs: I read every sticky here and everything else I could find; I tore them apart and visually inspected every component for obvious defects; I paid a gunsmith to inspect them as well, particularly to try to ensure that sear engagement, the safety, and the safety bridge were working properly; I borrowed a set of files like this one http://www.amazon.com/Flexbar-Hardness-Testing-File-Set/dp/B001CTI7TE from work to check for sub-par hardness on the bolt, receiver, barrel, gas tube, gas piston, op-rod, hammer, firing pin and sear; I checked the headspace to ensure that it was over NATO Go and under NATO No-Go; I checked bolt lug engagement to make sure it was even on both sides; I also performed a tilt test and function test.

When I bought my third one I skipped the gunsmith inspection, as I felt confident in my own observations by then. All three had been proof fired and included the fired casing and the tester's initials. I felt confident in them when I first fired them and now, many rounds later, I feel even more confident.
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I did a tear down at the store for my second norc the whole once bitten twice shy aproach to it, visualy and with basic tools it was good other then the off indexing... it even had a tight chamber. within 200 rounds it excesive headspace and having some serious issues.

Most people know by now that Marlins were sabatoaged at the factory by disgruntled employees . Nothing safty wise, but off indexed barrels, sites ####ed up, hammer marks, cracked stocks and in a lot of the leavers the feed system was hooped right out of the box. I geuss thats what happens when you piss off all the workers and close the plant after promissing you would not if they voted in favor of the remington buyout.... I got to look at 25+ leavers when they came into the store last year and I found 1 that wasn't messed up in some way (visualy anyways).
A lot of those got sent back because they were considered unsellable.... funny a lot of those issues are the same as norincos suffer yet still people defend them adamently that its normal and ok to have a gun with an off indexed barrel, sites that fall apart, tool marks, etc....
 
LordEvilPepper said:
I did a tear down at the store for my second norc the whole once bitten twice shy aproach to it, visualy and with basic tools it was good other then the off indexing... it even had a tight chamber. within 200 rounds it excesive headspace and having some serious issues.
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This is an important point. Checking headspace and bolt lug engagement should be re-done periodically.

LordEvilPepper said:
Most people know by now that Marlins were sabatoaged at the factory by disgruntled employees . Nothing safty wise, but off indexed barrels, sites ####ed up, hammer marks, cracked stocks and in a lot of the leavers the feed system was hooped right out of the box. I geuss thats what happens when you piss off all the workers and close the plant after promissing you would not if they voted in favor of the remington buyout.... I got to look at 25+ leavers when they came into the store last year and I found 1 that wasn't messed up in some way (visualy anyways).
A lot of those got sent back because they were considered unsellable.... funny a lot of those issues are the same as norincos suffer yet still people defend them adamently that its normal and ok to have a gun with an off indexed barrel, sites that fall apart, tool marks, etc....
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Mine was an online order and when I got it not only was the stock badly cracked, but there were several screws that had the heads stripped and the front sight had been mounted so that it extended about half a centimetre past the muzzle. The dealer made good and took it back for a full refund. I hadn't really heard about Marlin's troubles until after I got this rifle and started researching, I guess I should have reversed those two steps ;)
 
After a quick google search I found without any effort a Springfield bolt that failed just like the OPs, except BOTH lugs came off. Some one else in the same thread had a similar experience. If you read most stuff on american M14 forums you will see threads very similar to this one, except some people complain about buying a $2000 rifle and having to swap USGI parts into it, instead of a $450 rifle. I'm not saying that Norincos are on par with Springfield from a quality point of view, but all this bull about M305s being deathtraps and a waste of money to upgrade is ridiculous. The ratio to Springfields and LRBs sold in Canada to Norinco is huge, so obviously you will hear more about Norinco problems. But then consider all the rest of the Norincos sold that no one has any issues with, and then things start to make sense. Its like the results of a customer experience survey, terribly skewed because only people who have something to complain about will bother to fill it out.

Would a Springfield be a better bet if you decided to shoot one without any safety inspection? Probably. Is it a good idea to shoot any rifle without a checkup for basic problems? Obviously not.
 
Hi, this is the original poster. I'd like to thank everone who has taken the time to comment on my situation. I don't yet know why this happened, but I am getting someone who knows their stuff to look at the reciever and bolt, once that happens, I'll post the results.
I'm still upset with the bolt failure- I really liked that rifle (up to that point, now not so much) but I was lucky that I got off relatively unscathed.

One of the best things about this pasttime is the variety- of firearms, techniques and especially opinions, (of which there are certainly a wide variety when it comes to Norincos)

I won't be getting another Norinco, (my better half was pretty insistant on that), but I am going to the range tomorrow and if there is a silver lining to this, I do have an excellent reason to get another rifle.

Thanks to everyone who has posted.
 
Personally, having owned a Nork m305 years ago, having spent about $1k replacing bolt, stock, flashider, trigger group, org, shimming, bedding, tweaking, etc, it would shoot ok in the area of 2moa, but it just was not a comfortable rifle to shoot for that kind of accuracy, the balance and muzzle jump was not good . I never really liked the design of the M14....never did it for me. IMHO it's probably the worst of the 7.62 mbr's of its time.
 
rascal1 said:
When you guys are done flaming each other, maybe you can take a look at my photo and tell me what you think!:HR:
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Ignore the fear mongering and general silliness going on here. Your bolt looks fine with good engagement on both lugs, a simple check anyone should look at on any M14 replica.
 
Not sure exactly, Hungry said it was 16 thou over a no go gauge. I have not experienced any issues with the rifle, brass is not deformed at all.
 
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I just shake my head reading this thread. There are some real winners kickin round this site I tell ya. Kinda makes a guy not want to post a thing.

But anyways.... OP... I would absolutely suspect your rifle kaboomed due to a defective reload. I won't speculate any further on that. Glad yer okay.

And the other fella panicking about his bolt... Nothing appears out of the norm.

If even half the drivel in this thread were true Hungry and I and a few other guys here that have shot a szhitload more than one or 2 of these commie m14's, one of us would surely be missing an eye, or left hand or testicle ect ect.

No chickin little, the sky is not falling LOL
 
45ACPKING said:
I just shake my head reading this thread. There are some real winners kickin round this site I tell ya. Kinda makes a guy not want to post a thing.

But anyways.... OP... I would absolutely suspect your rifle kaboomed due to a defective reload. I won't speculate any further on that. Glad yer okay.

And the other fella panicking about his bolt... Nothing appears out of the norm.

If even half the drivel in this thread were true Hungry and I and a few other guys here that have shot a szhitload more than one or 2 of these commie m14's, one of us would surely be missing an eye, or left hand or testicle ect ect.

No chickin little, the sky is not falling LOL
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At last........sense prevails.
OP.. If you don't believe this guy and Hungry, perhaps the Norc isn't right for you. They have more experience with this gun than most of us, far more and I would accept their opinion and advice without hesitation.
Last time I saw Hungry he had all his fingers and both eyes :)
Cant comment on his man gear ...........don't know him that well :))
 
Lost...again said:
At last........sense prevails.
OP.. If you don't believe this guy and Hungry, perhaps the Norc isn't right for you. They have more experience with this gun than most of us, far more and I would accept their opinion and advice without hesitation.
Last time I saw Hungry he had all his fingers and both eyes :)
Cant comment on his man gear ...........don't know him that well :))
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I make my living in oil and gas. You don't see me telling people to buy hybrids and run bio diesel either.

As for the numbers there are +/- 200,000 Springfield's in North America and how many Norinco's? The numbers may be closer than you all think.
 
Thx for chiming in Thomas. I am not panicking about my bolt. I thought it looked fine and wanted others to post their opinions so that people could have photo proof and the comments of others to see that there are good norcs out there. I had never actually checked it until I read this post...Like I said, I have never had any issues with my rifle and plan on shooting a hell of alot more out of it.:wave:

45ACPKING said:
I just shake my head reading this thread. There are some real winners kickin round this site I tell ya. Kinda makes a guy not want to post a thing.

But anyways.... OP... I would absolutely suspect your rifle kaboomed due to a defective reload. I won't speculate any further on that. Glad yer okay.

And the other fella panicking about his bolt... Nothing appears out of the norm.

If even half the drivel in this thread were true Hungry and I and a few other guys here that have shot a szhitload more than one or 2 of these commie m14's, one of us would surely be missing an eye, or left hand or testicle ect ect.

No chickin little, the sky is not falling LOL
Click to expand...
 
watermine said:
Hi, this is the original poster. I'd like to thank everone who has taken the time to comment on my situation. I don't yet know why this happened, but I am getting someone who knows their stuff to look at the reciever and bolt, once that happens, I'll post the results.
I'm still upset with the bolt failure- I really liked that rifle (up to that point, now not so much) but I was lucky that I got off relatively unscathed.

One of the best things about this pasttime is the variety- of firearms, techniques and especially opinions, (of which there are certainly a wide variety when it comes to Norincos)

I won't be getting another Norinco, (my better half was pretty insistant on that), but I am going to the range tomorrow and if there is a silver lining to this, I do have an excellent reason to get another rifle.

Thanks to everyone who has posted.
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I apologize for my part in derailing your thread. I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt and I hope your silver lining pans out into an excellent new rifle.

I was wondering if you could post a picture of the bearing surface of your left bolt lug, I'm just personally curious about how much damage/wear there is.
 
As an owner of a 2007 Norinco N305 project rifle, can new North-American made bolt assemblies be purchased anywhere in Canada?

The gas system needs two shims and the headspace has not yet been verified. Also, the front sight base was improperly forged (the sight tilts to the right).
 
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