Travis Haley's Opinion of the Tavor . . .

TK-Hryciuk said:
I sure hope that wasn't a stab at me in the beginning. Nowhere did I claim the Tavor was the most reliable firearm on the market. I decided to shoot the heck out of it and let everyone know how it went... That was kind of low..
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Relax dude, no offense meant, you even quoted the part where I said "It isn't a slight towards anyone"

You claimed you "shot the heck" out of, and were very impressed that your Tavor was able to handle 1600 rounds in a day and had "zero malfunctions of any sort, except for two."

To be as impressed as you sounded by that performance, and to then make a thread about how reliable or impressive the Tavor is, based on that performance, is exactly what I am talking about. But it still isn't a stab against you. Be impressed by whatever you want. It's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. The Tavor IS a very impressive, and reliable rifle.
 
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BenL said:
Thanks for making my point even easier :)

The best of the bullpup trigger is somewhat comparable to a bone stock, low end AR. Not exactly sure that's anything to write home about ;)
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That's not to say that substantial improvement isn't possible in at least some bullpup designs.

It's only been a few years at most since any of them have hit the U.S. market in any kind of numbers, so as with any new gun, amazing trigger improvements aren't going to be available at this point.
 
BenL said:
Thanks for making my point even easier :)

The best of the bullpup trigger is somewhat comparable to a bone stock, low end AR. Not exactly sure that's anything to write home about ;)
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The RFB trigger is pretty good. It's better than a stock low end AR. Not as good as a real match trigger but still pretty decent. I've fired a few of them including my own. As for the Tavor, you can take off a spring to give you a lighter weight. But it becomes less crisp and feels more like a stock glock trigger. Spongy feeling. I just left mine stock and it works fine.

The trigger on my work pistol is 12 lbs per pull. If you can shoot with that, you can shoot with anything. :p
 
Epoxy7 said:
The RFB trigger is pretty good. It's better than a stock low end AR. Not as good as a real match trigger but still pretty decent. I've fired a few of them including my own. As for the Tavor, you can take off a spring to give you a lighter weight. But it becomes less crisp and feels more like a stock glock trigger. Spongy feeling. I just left mine stock and it works fine.

The trigger on my work pistol is 12 lbs per pull. If you can shoot with that, you can shoot with anything. :p
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If you feel fine with compromising with an sub-par ok trigger when sinking in $3,000+ into a bullpup rifle only because it's non-restricted that's your prerogative :)

I feel sorry for you that have to work with that. Where or for who is it exactly? I can't possibly imagine you're stuck, on top of it all, with a DA only and that you can at least fall back on the fact that your follow-ups are in SA..
 
I've had one since the first shipment, liked it long before Travis anointed it, I agree with his comments. Thousands of rounds through it no problems what so ever, can't even recall any malfunctions, I'm sure there must have been some. I have found that the trigger smoothed out a little bit more with use, it is a heavier pull but nothing objectionable. The biggest issue I've had is finding the perfect sling mount.
 
BenL said:
If you feel fine with compromising with an sub-par ok trigger when sinking in $3,000+ into a bullpup rifle only because it's non-restricted that's your prerogative :)

I feel sorry for you that have to work with that. Where or for who is it exactly? I can't possibly imagine you're stuck, on top of it all, with a DA only and that you can at least fall back on the fact that your follow-ups are in SA..
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The trigger is milspec. It's battle rifle quality. The weight doesn't bother me as long as it's smooth and crisp. My Tavor trigger is fairly smooth and let's off crisp. My best 5 round group to date was with a stock 5R milspec and 5 pound trigger. The weight is less crucial than smoothness. Frankly the balance of the Tavor more than off sets not being able to put a target trigger in it. I've owned mine for around 4 years now. Gen 1.5 from Can Am. You'll notice I haven't sold it. The trigger isn't as big a deal as many would have you think. It's not a precision rifle.

The trigger on my PS90 is a bit spongy but let's off crisp. The PS90 and Tavor are a ton of fun to shoot. Don't let the Internet trigger complaints or the common bullpups suck Internet or old timer talk stop you from shooting one. The price tag is high on these toys but once you have an AR or two you owe it to yourself to take another look. Shooting off hand they are a real joy. That Tavor has an 18.5" barrel and is shorter than a fully collapsed AR with 16" barrel.

I shoot a S&W 5946. So yup DAO no double single. That being said I can shoot it fairly decently. The trigger on mine is well used so it's smooth even though a heavy long pull. It's one of those you wish for better but make sure you're good with what you've got deals.
 
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Epoxy7 said:
The trigger is milspec. It's battle rifle quality. The weight doesn't bother me as long as it's smooth and crisp. My Tavor trigger is fairly smooth and let's off crisp. My best 5 round group to date was with a stock 5R milspec and 5 pound trigger. The weight is less crucial than smoothness. Frankly the balance of the Tavor more than off sets not being able to put a target trigger in it. I've owned mine for around 4 years now. Gen 1.5 from Can Am. You'll notice I haven't sold it. The trigger isn't as big a deal as many would have you think. It's not a precision rifle.

The trigger on my PS90 is a bit spongy but let's off crisp. The PS90 and Tavor are a ton of fun to shoot. Don't let the Internet trigger complaints or the common bullpups suck Internet or old timer talk stop you from shooting one. The price tag is high on these toys but once you have an AR or two you owe it to yourself to take another look. Shooting off hand they are a real joy. That Tavor has an 18.5" barrel and is shorter than a fully collapsed AR with 16" barrel.

I shoot a S&W 5946. So yup DAO no double single. That being said I can shoot it fairly decently. The trigger on mine is well used so it's smooth even though a heavy long pull. It's one of those you wish for better but make sure you're good with what you've got deals.
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Sigh.

I really love the fact that you assume that no one else commenting in these thread has (or currently do) owned either (or both) the Tavor and RFB, including me :) Great for you for keeping up with it. I couldn't stand the trigger of the Tavor one bit. Horrible is my experience with it.

That being said - a trigger on $3,500 NR rifle, bullpup (or not), HAS TO BE BETTER than just "ok". I don't give a rat's a$$ what you say about it - for that kind of cash, you HAVE to expect A LOT better. You keep telling yourself that and I'll keep interjecting in these threads. Seems the only point we agree on is the Adcor - but then again you still found a way to better your own in comparing your HERA to my ATRS lower ;)

An S&W 5946 makes your an RCMP officer, or are other LEA using them? Never had the chance of firing one at the range.
 
You Canadian guys have some really interesting conversations about these things!

The civilian trigger pack must be different from the IDF one in more ways than just the "fun switch."

I would be curious to see what you all thought of an X95 trigger . . .
 
BenL said:
Sigh.

I really love the fact that you assume that no one else commenting in these thread has (or currently do) owned either (or both) the Tavor and RFB, including me :) Great for you for keeping up with it. I couldn't stand the trigger of the Tavor one bit. Horrible is my experience with it.

That being said - a trigger on $3,500 NR rifle, bullpup (or not), HAS TO BE BETTER than just "ok". I don't give a rat's a$$ what you say about it - for that kind of cash, you HAVE to expect A LOT better. You keep telling yourself that and I'll keep interjecting in these threads. Seems the only point we agree on is the Adcor - but then again you still found a way to better your own in comparing your HERA to my ATRS lower ;)

An S&W 5946 makes your an RCMP officer, or are other LEA using them? Never had the chance of firing one at the range.
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I think your blowing this WAY out of proportion. I own a tavor and dont have a huge problem with the trigger. The gun itself is not just "ok", its a great gun. The trigger is ok, sure, but Im not looking for sub 1 moa or even 1 moa groups. If you absolutely need a great trigger, use a different gun and stop complaining! Also, tavor is not $3500, depends where you buy it and if its new or used. I paid $2500 and feel it was worth every penny especially when you can spend that on an AR thats restricted and useless (to me at least, dont get offended as I love AR's)

Lastly, what would you purchase over a tavor? IMO when talking bullpups (with the exception of T97 which I will be buying) there is nothing that compares. The tavor is proven, reliable, very compact (1" longer than my brothers 10.5" AR collapsed) and accurate enough, I dont need much more.... The benefits far outweigh the negatives IMO unless your just being negative about it.
 
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BenL said:
Thanks for making my point even easier :)

The best of the bullpup trigger is somewhat comparable to a bone stock, low end AR. Not exactly sure that's anything to write home about ;)
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If you need a hair trigger, then BR 22lr is your game. Tavor is battle kit, and the trigger is 'stiff' for a very good reason. IWI is NOT going to change it for range warriors. Handling a rifle under stress is much different than what most guys on gunnutz are used to. If you don't like it, fine don't buy ,it doesn't mean the tool is poorly made or wrongly made for the given tasks.
 
Jus102Carbines said:
I think your blowing this WAY out of proportion. I own a tavor and dont have a huge problem with the trigger. The gun itself is not just "ok", its a great gun. The trigger is ok, sure, but Im not looking for sub 1 moa or even 1 moa groups. If you absolutely need a great trigger, use a different gun and stop complaining! Also, tavor is not $3500, depends where you buy it and if its new or used. I paid $2500 and feel it was worth every penny especially when you can spend that on an AR thats restricted and useless (to me at least, dont get offended as I love AR's)

Lastly, what would you purchase over a tavor? IMO when talking bullpups (with the exception of T97 which I will be buying) there is nothing that compares. The tavor is proven, reliable, very compact (1" longer than my brothers 10.5" are collapsed) and accurate enough, I dont need much more.... The benefits far outweigh the negatives IMO unless your just being negative about it.
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Where did I say that the Tavor, as a WHOLE platform, was just "ok"? If you can point that out, I'd be happy to see it for myself. My problem with the Tavor was, and will always be, the trigger.
 
BenL said:
Where did I say that the Tavor, as a WHOLE platform, was just "ok"? If you can point that out, I'd be happy to see it for myself. My problem with the Tavor was, and will always be, the trigger.
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Well it seems as if your implying that the trigger ruins the rifle in general... My bad if I misread you. Maybe your just used to amazing triggers but I dont have any huge problems with it at all.

Leibermuster said:
Tavor is on my list, probably 2016 purchase...
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You plan your purchases 3 years in advance lol?
 
BenL said:
Sigh.

I really love the fact that you assume that no one else commenting in these thread has (or currently do) owned either (or both) the Tavor and RFB, including me :) Great for you for keeping up with it. I couldn't stand the trigger of the Tavor one bit. Horrible is my experience with it.

That being said - a trigger on $3,500 NR rifle, bullpup (or not), HAS TO BE BETTER than just "ok". I don't give a rat's a$$ what you say about it - for that kind of cash, you HAVE to expect A LOT better. You keep telling yourself that and I'll keep interjecting in these threads. Seems the only point we agree on is the Adcor - but then again you still found a way to better your own in comparing your HERA to my ATRS lower ;)

An S&W 5946 makes your an RCMP officer, or are other LEA using them? Never had the chance of firing one at the range.
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I know a number of people on here own both or have experience with both. I have no idea if you fit into that category or not. I can say my opinions are based on direct comparison regarding both.

As for triggers. The RFB has a patent on their trigger system as tackling the bullpup trigger was a major design point. I followed the RFB for 3 years before we could get them.

I also know that the trigger on the Tavor rifles Ive shot weren't as bad as many on here including yourself would suggest. Yes Id love a match trigger. But I'm not as worried about it on this type of rifle as you seem to be.

Frankly the $3000 Swiss arms trigger isn't match grade either. It's better than the Tavor but not as great as a good AR trigger. There's a spring set to lower the weight floating around out there. A $700 CZ858 has a trigger as good or in my experience actually better. Yet you don't hear a lot of complaints about it.

Yes I know you're still pissed at me about the lowers. I posted for a long time on them trying to elude to the fact some options were better than others and that one was over priced. Bottom line you paid $180 too much for that lower. I tried to be subtle about it but it seemed to be circumvented by brand hype. I was hoping to save others from spending too much when there's a significantly cheaper and slightly better option out there. Don't keep carrying a grudge about it. It wasn't about you at that point. By the way I once ordered one myself in the gen1 days and when I realized the final I cost I just ate the deposit. So trying to save others from wasting money. A few others on here have saved me from other money wasters with their posts. Just returning the favour for those who were considering the options. I actually wasn't trying to piss in your cornflakes.

As for the Americans joining the Tavor party. They have a proven track record of joining in around 5 years late!!! :wave: Better late than never I guess. :p Glad to see them joining in on the fun.
 
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LOL!

You don't really think that I feel, in any way, shape or form a) regrets in purchasing a Canadian made ATRS lower b) paying $180 more for it (as you so believe I did) and, perhaps as importantly, c) me being "pissed at you" lol? Jeez brotha you're reading into this way to much.
 
I think this is the perfect time for this:

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BenL said:
LOL!

You don't really think that I feel, in any way, shape or form a) regrets in purchasing a Canadian made ATRS lower b) paying $180 more for it (as you so believe I did) and, perhaps as importantly, c) me being "pissed at you" lol? Jeez brotha you're reading into this way to much.
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Ohh I see. I got it wrong. A big LOL on that eh?

So instead you were recomending a product to the rest of us at the "don't think of it as rape, think of it as surprise ###" listing price. The price that you didn't in fact pay anywhere near yourself but the rest of us would. You're right that's much worse.
 
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