Best choice AR-15 from the list

Best AR-15

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pbr streetgang said:
I own a few LMT's and they are great rifles, great quality without the boutique price. My advice would be to keep it all LMT, as you tend to get a better resale on a complete factory build....
I don't think you would have any buyers remorse if you were to go with LMT, and they are plenty ###y with a great fit and finish.


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Ahh it's like that is it? I see your excellent high quality photos with, well much less quality photos. :p Nice pictures PBR. Very slick looking rifles. You even make the HK look good. :stirthepot2:

Yes I agree keep it all LMT. In the States you will sometimes see LMT mrp uppers with KAC lowers. If you don't need/really want the ambi there isn't much point. Plus price wise it's usually very hard to beat the complete package price. Once you break down the parts you end up usually paying more.

LMT mrp and LMT mws

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mrp with 5R SS mike rock barrel. A heavier with that barrel but I wanted the accuracy. With that monolithic upper it seemed like the right thing to do. :D. Besides I can change it back in two minutes if I want.

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Armalite: It gets a Diamondhead VRS-T rail and low profile gas block soon. Note the LMT rear site is on it. The front one will go on it too when the new rail is on. This effectively negates the "washout" issues with the M21 optic. Raise your head slightly and you use the red dot only. Lower and you're on the aperture sights with our without red dot (if washed out no red dot). Yes they co witness.

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ADCOR:

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The one thing to take away from all this. Any AR you get is going to be awesome. Get quality and you will be very happy. Don't think for a minute you will only be buying one. It always starts out that way. So buy the one you want. You'll eventually want the others later. Also The AR10 / AR308 bug is even worse. Fortunately there are less choices out there. The LMT also being one of the best right now.
 
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bacardi said:
I made my choice. It will be a gen 2 SIG 516 patrol with 16" barrel and LMT CQB MRP upper with 12" barrel. I'll post pics. :)
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Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing it.

So who wants to start a pool? 3 months before he's looking for a LMT lower? :popCorn:

It always starts with I just "need" one lower. But pretty soon you realize if you get another lower for that upper you will have two complete rifles!! Or you have an "extra" lower around that just needs that upper. It's a disease.
 
Epoxy7 said:
Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing it.

So who wants to start a pool? 3 months before he's looking for a LMT lower? :popCorn:

It always starts with I just "need" one lower. But pretty soon you realize if you get another lower for that upper you will have two complete rifles!! Or you have an "extra" lower around that just needs that upper. It's a disease.
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What are the pros of LMT lower compare to SIG lower? Any advantages on the design, material, finishes, trigger group, and etc?
 
bacardi said:
What are the pros of LMT lower compare to SIG lower? Any advantages on the design, material, finishes, trigger group, and etc?
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The pros are that it comes with the Sopmod stock and ergo grip. The stock on it's own is fairly expensive. Although there are cost effective alternatives such as the B5 which is identical if you can find one, and the Magpul STR. The LMT rollmark isn't offensive and the lower is typical high quality. You would have to specify the trigger group if you want the match one which will cost more. There's nothing special about the lower other than it matches the upper. Which as PBR mentioned can help with resale. I prefer having the company lower to match that upper if possible.

The Sig lower has that built in ambi mag release if I remember correctly. However it isn't as esthetically pleasing as the Norgon. But the Norgon will set you back $90. So you could argue the Sig does have a $90 extra. At the very least it does have the extra mag well release built in which I do like if going ambi. Also a built in QR swivel point in the back of the lower. I actually prefer the PWS tactical buffer option with QR to in the lower. But again this is included in the Sig. If you have a Sig upper then again it's preferable to have the whole package. With the Sig lower, it seems like it's trying to be more than what it is but for some reason not pulling it off. I think it's because that ambi mag release doesn't do it for me. The QR sockets at the back are KAC like but that's one option I have never really liked. Also the Sig lower comes with the Magpul MOE CTR stock. The MOE version doesn't have the lock on it. It's the cheaper version. The pistol grip appears to be the Magpul MOE which I use as well as the ergo grip.

I know you're set on the Sig but I personally would be absolutely sure first. If you're a die hard piston guy the PWS offers a better value and includes a SS barrel for $200 more than the Sig. The MRP is another option I'd consider, but for piston I think I'd still look at PWS if not going to ADCOR, HK etc. The long stroke piston along with SS barrel should help with the typical accuracy loss in piston AR rifles vs Direct impingement. Plus if you ever wanted to sell the resale value of the PWS I believe to be greater. Don't rush into any decisions.

PWS specifications from a site sponsor:

$2,199.99 PWS - MK114 MOD 1 , 14.5' Piston Driven Rifle, .223 Specifications

Caliber 5.56 NATO / .223
Barrel Length 14.5'
Forged Mil-Spec upper and lower receiver
BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle
Stainless Isonite treated, button rifled barrel, 1:8 twist
PWS Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group
PWS Keymod system
MAGPUL MOE Stock, Grips and trigger guard
MAGPUL MBUS GenII sights
PWS Muzzle device

Includes 1 x 30 round PMAG pinned to 5

Unless you can get the SIG for a smoking deal I would think it through.
 
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The SIG gun is an interesting gun, the Multi-position gas port has become pretty much of a requirement on piston guns with various ammunition loading differences (and suppressed if your into that sort of thing).

I was at a foreign evaluation for a 5.56mm program, interestingly enough the Sig 516 was the gun that did the second best in the reliability testing ;),we had 0 stoppages in the first 1850 rounds and Sig had 6 - company personnel where not allowed to attend the remained of the testing phases.
Ammo was varied from 45gr Frangible to heavier loadings in the 70-77gr area, plus suppressed requirement. Colt pulled their piston gun and Hk withdrew due to issues with cycling frang.

Interestingly enough the Engineer from Hk that did most of the Hk416 work now works for Sig and claims to have fixed all the Hk416 issues. All that said, if I had to take a piston carbine, I would still pick the Hk based on success rates and my own experiences, but I think Sig will be one to watch in future trials.

But for the love of god Sig - we removed our QD points in the receiver as the 5.56mm receiver does not have enough room to do it right, then you go an do it :HR:
 
Pretty fancy how ARs are getting.

I still love my old school 800.00 Olympic Arms CAR with an 11.5" barrel had it for 16 or years fed all kinds of ammo mil, hunting, FMJ, HP, never had a jam excempt from a crappy mag. Updated the plastics a bit, have QD optics, old school irons, a CMMG .22 sub conversion kit, all I know is it groups VERY even with a short barrel seems to like Norinco FMJ the best for accuracy.

Just can't part with this old girl, trying to say these platforms have really evolved much like how Porche 911s have evolved since 1964.

Have to still buy some new mags for her as these old ones have been thru lots still prefer the KISS principal here with this simple gas system. The .22 kit is just great works well as shooting 5.56 at 25 yards just seems a waste. I also built up my 1022 as not being able to shoot my AR anyway but a range really is a shame kind of feels like my AR and yes I moved my 1022 sling rearward and yes it sports a fake can.

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Randy
 
Epoxy7 said:
The pros are that it comes with the Sopmod stock and ergo grip. The stock on it's own is fairly expensive. Although there are cost effective alternatives such as the B5 which is identical if you can find one, and the Magpul STR. The LMT rollmark isn't offensive and the lower is typical high quality. You would have to specify the trigger group if you want the match one which will cost more. There's nothing special about the lower other than it matches the upper. Which as PBR mentioned can help with resale. I prefer having the company lower to match that upper if possible.

The Sig lower has that built in ambi mag release if I remember correctly. However it isn't as esthetically pleasing as the Norgon. But the Norgon will set you back $90. So you could argue the Sig does have a $90 extra. At the very least it does have the extra mag well release built in which I do like if going ambi. Also a built in QR swivel point in the back of the lower. I actually prefer the PWS tactical buffer option with QR to in the lower. But again this is included in the Sig. If you have a Sig upper then again it's preferable to have the whole package. With the Sig lower, it seems like it's trying to be more than what it is but for some reason not pulling it off. I think it's because that ambi mag release doesn't do it for me. The QR sockets at the back are KAC like but that's one option I have never really liked. Also the Sig lower comes with the Magpul MOE CTR stock. The MOE version doesn't have the lock on it. It's the cheaper version. The pistol grip appears to be the Magpul MOE which I use as well as the ergo grip.

I know you're set on the Sig but I personally would be absolutely sure first. If you're a die hard piston guy the PWS offers a better value and includes a SS barrel for $200 more than the Sig. The MRP is another option I'd consider, but for piston I think I'd still look at PWS if not going to ADCOR, HK etc. The long stroke piston along with SS barrel should help with the typical accuracy loss in piston AR rifles vs Direct impingement. Plus if you ever wanted to sell the resale value of the PWS I believe to be greater. Don't rush into any decisions.

PWS specifications from a site sponsor:

$2,199.99 PWS - MK114 MOD 1 , 14.5' Piston Driven Rifle, .223 Specifications

Caliber 5.56 NATO / .223
Barrel Length 14.5'
Forged Mil-Spec upper and lower receiver
BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle
Stainless Isonite treated, button rifled barrel, 1:8 twist
PWS Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group
PWS Keymod system
MAGPUL MOE Stock, Grips and trigger guard
MAGPUL MBUS GenII sights
PWS Muzzle device

Includes 1 x 30 round PMAG pinned to 5

Unless you can get the SIG for a smoking deal I would think it through.
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I know which site sponsor you got the spec for the PWS. The same site sponsor also sells SIG 516 for $1,999.99. I got my SIG around $1,700.

I like the idea of able to switch uppers from 16" to 12" and keep the same lower. I like SIG lower better than LMT. In the future I might be getting an LMT lower like you all predict, but who knows :p

I was going to get PWS but apparently PWS mk114 does not take Magpul ASAP sling, and the price for mk114 mod 0 and 1 is the same for some reason. I don't know why. I like the railing on the mod 0 though.
 
pbr streetgang said:
as much as i have agreed with some of your statements on other threads, on this one i respectfully have to disagree.
I have a Norinco, LMT, Noveske, H&K, Colt, NEA, not to mention a few other brands, and there is a difference. Norinco is the budget minded "Hyundai" of AR's, it will usually get you where you need to go but it just isn't a great ride. If you have the extra cash to get a higher end rifle, then by all means do it. Most of us do this sport because we enjoy it and not because we need or have to, you should buy what makes you happy and not what is practical. If we went by the "get what you need and not what you want" rationale, then we should all sell our AR's and go get some cheap bolt action 22LR's, because were just punching paper...right?
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Opinion noted and thanks for the compliment.

I've had great success with Norcs, especially the M305/14 clones, and I agree with your analogy of them being like unto the older Hyundais (those Ponies ran great!). Very functional, despite being rough around the edges.

I am as proud of my firearms as the next guy, and I do actually prefer the higher quality guns, but if I was less fortunate in my earnings, I would know that the Norc would be the best I could do on a limited budget, coupled with range ammo and optic of choice. I would also know that the Norc, despite its lower tier status, performs well in its role of target shooting at the range. This is the gist of my original post. If a guy can absolutely afford the high end machinery, power to him, but for a lot of Joe Six-Packs, the Norc remains a great, logical choice for range fun.
 
bacardi said:
I was going to get PWS but apparently PWS mk114 does not take Magpul ASAP sling, and the price for mk114 mod 0 and 1 is the same for some reason. I don't know why. I like the railing on the mod 0 though.
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PWS had built in QD sockets on the buffer tube and the rail works, they are great with the Magpul MS3.
 
hbean said:
PWS had built in QD sockets on the buffer tube and the rail works, they are great with the Magpul MS3.
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I use PWS enhanced tubes on two of my builds. I really like them. Like Hbean stated QR points built in and I prefer this over being on the lower. Plus the top has the positions marked. Stocks with the hole on top let you see the position number. These are the same tubes the PWS rifles come with.

KevinB interesting about the Sig. I'm glad KAC no longer has the built in QR sockets with the lower. In the tube offers better placement. It seems stronger and won't crowd your hand or the controls.

For the price on that Sig I'm sure the OP will be happy. By all acounts it's a decent piston AR. The price point for features is pretty good.
 
I own LMT (14.5in bbl, carbine gas) and KAC (16in bbl, mid gas). Neither has given me any non-ammo or mag related malfunctions. Both are in the thousands of rounds. The softer recoil pulse of the midlength KAC gas system and the Colt Canada barrel gives it the edge for me, but dollar for dollar, the LMT is the better buy.

You would have to specify which models for a true apples to apples comparison.
 
ESQ said:
I own LMT (14.5in bbl, carbine gas) and KAC (16in bbl, mid gas). Neither has given me any non-ammo or mag related malfunctions. Both are in the thousands of rounds. The softer recoil pulse of the midlength KAC gas system and the Colt Canada barrel gives it the edge for me, but dollar for dollar, the LMT is the better buy.

You would have to specify which models for a true apples to apples comparison.
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I made my decision already and bought SIG 516 patrol with 16" barrel and LMT CQB MRP upper only with 12" barrel. :)
 
ntc223 said:
Colt...All cal AR Colts...Colt is quality and all others copy....But Colt AR's are the only ones I've ever had over 40 years now and counting...But I am sure there are some other excellent COPYS out there!!
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If I'm not mistaken even your precious Colt is a copy. I do believe Eugene Stoner was at Armalite when he designed and patented the AR. I will give you that Colt has exceeded most others when it comes to build quality and snatched the military contract but there are others out there that are just as good and may even excel in different area's.
I don't really think there is a bad brand out there as long as you do some research and know what to expect for the money they are charging. All seem to be reliable and prices varies so widely that you just need to pick a budget and then do some research and decide what extra's you want it to come with for the price. If you pay less than $1000 don't expect to get the same quality as a $3000 rifle. That's just common sense.

I have owned 2 Armalites, a Bushmaster, a Stag, (also spent an afternoon with a Rock River 16 inch) and now own 2 PWS, one is a 9.75 inch in 300 blackout and the other is a 12 inch in .223. Both have functioned flawlessly but I never had a single issue with any of the other brands that couldn't be explained. All issues were easily fixed within minutes and the rifle was back up and running.

If I was shopping for a DI rifle I would also add Spikes Tactical to your list, they are full milspec and seem to be quite under rated so they are quite affordable.
As a civilian it doesn't really matter what brand you go with since your life is not on the line. Just buy within your budget and be a happy owner of an AR-15
If my life was depending on my rifle I would go with KAC, PWS, LMT, BCM, or Noveske or I'd buy one from ATRS and get a Canadian made rifle with local support and parts that is also built extremely well.

Good luck no matter which way you go.
 
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