Any idea where the 97NSR is next weekend?

If they had it, I don't think they'd be charging money to let you look at it.


Walking into the shop is showing support for their business.
If the Swiss Arms rifles go prohib and we have to hand them in without compensation TSE is going to buy my rifle off me for retail value or they won't see me again. I hope that means something to them since I bought a $7000 rifle off them Christmas 2011 and usually make a point of stopping in there every time I go through Calgary and usually come out with a couple hundred dollars worth of gear.
 
Walking into the shop is showing support for their business.
If the Swiss Arms rifles go prohib and we have to hand them in without compensation TSE is going to buy my rifle off me for retail value or they won't see me again. I hope that means something to them since I bought a $7000 rifle off them Christmas 2011 and usually make a point of stopping in there every time I go through Calgary and usually come out with a couple hundred dollars worth of gear.

No way would they ever do that, let alone any business.
 
No way would they ever do that, let alone any business.

If you had read all the threads of how this situation came to be you would understand why I blame them and expect compensation from them if the RCMP don't compensate us for them.

Anyway, back on track here. As soon as anyone hears where the T-97 is next be sure to post here. I hope it hits Edmonton before the shipments start coming in.
 
Just held the T-97 :D
P&D Edmonton has it on the rack.
Looks pretty good. A little awkward to reassemble but I'm sure it would get easier each time.

I have a deposit on one from Wanstalls, I hopefully hope I'll get it before the end of the year. I couldnt wait anymore to get a bullpup so I dished out the cash for a Tavor, but I'll still be happy when this little Chinese imitation comes in. i could lend it to friends when we go shooting while I keep my Tavor all to myself.
 
With the Type 97 I highly doubt the manufacturer (norinco) would have posted up anything here. Now North Sylva could have kept it quiet, and maybe the dealers, but then again the only way two people can keep a secret is for the first not to tell the second.

And what better way to judge potential sales than by letting information leak.


Let's look at it this way, firearms are not exactly cheap. There are more than quite a few people who don't have to worry about money or let the credit card take care of the rest. There are also many people have to at least do some budgeting or ask for permission of the significant other. Personally, I would like to know ahead of what it is coming, so at least I got a rough idea to think ahead of what I will be buying in the next 12 months (!) If there is no money in the budget, there is nothing I can do with a 1 week notice even if it is an item I really want.

The problem is that people are trying to hold these "ETA" as a guarantee. The firearms industry as a whole NEVER EVER meets any deadline line! In the last 13 years, I have never ever seen any projected ETA to be accurate, even if the ETA is like 2 weeks away. Something always happens. Things are always late. It is just a matter of how long the delay is.

What it means, people should used the information and ETA released by dealers as a rough reference to budget accordingly. It is a win-win situation. Consumers know the products are coming and can budget for it. Dealers know that the consumers have budgeted to buy, the risk is lower as they are more assured products could move fast and that they can free up their cash without money stuck in inventory.

If you suddenly drop a product on the lap of consumers, that is of relatively high value they have to wait to replenish their budget or have to overcome more resistance to use more line of credit. That means inventory has to sit at retailers for a longer time, and the distributors will in term have a lower inventory turnover. You, as a consumer, are watching the product helplessly because you simply don't have the credit to buy it.

Despite all the background noises and moaning about missing ETA, it is still better to let people know ahead what it is going to happen. People just need to understand ETA will always be inaccurate, and the real date is always late.
 
Let's look at it this way, firearms are not exactly cheap. There are more than quite a few people who don't have to worry about money or let the credit card take care of the rest. There are also many people have to at least do some budgeting or ask for permission of the significant other. Personally, I would like to know ahead of what it is coming, so at least I got a rough idea to think ahead of what I will be buying in the next 12 months (!) If there is no money in the budget, there is nothing I can do with a 1 week notice even if it is an item I really want.

The problem is that people are trying to hold these "ETA" as a guarantee. The firearms industry as a whole NEVER EVER meets any deadline line! In the last 13 years, I have never ever seen any projected ETA to be accurate, even if the ETA is like 2 weeks away. Something always happens. Things are always late. It is just a matter of how long the delay is.

What it means, people should used the information and ETA released by dealers as a rough reference to budget accordingly. It is a win-win situation. Consumers know the products are coming and can budget for it. Dealers know that the consumers have budgeted to buy, the risk is lower as they are more assured products could move fast and that they can free up their cash without money stuck in inventory.

If you suddenly drop a product on the lap of consumers, that is of relatively high value they have to wait to replenish their budget or have to overcome more resistance to use more line of credit. That means inventory has to sit at retailers for a longer time, and the distributors will in term have a lower inventory turnover. You, as a consumer, are watching the product helplessly because you simply don't have the credit to buy it.

Despite all the background noises and moaning about missing ETA, it is still better to let people know ahead what it is going to happen. People just need to understand ETA will always be inaccurate, and the real date is always late.



I follow your logic but I still don't like these stupid pre-order lists unless they make you put at least 25% down.
There are too many people that screw it up by putting their name on every list hoping to get one from the first batch or at least get it as early as possible, then they cancel their other pre-orders as soon as they get their hands on one (Or even worse they take all the ones they are signed up for then put them on our EE for a nice 50% markup and some fool with more cash than brains actually pays that amount).
By doing this they have created an artificial demand and the retailers order too many and the same problem you described occurs where the product now sits on the shelf. Another issue is that this false demand gives them justification to increase the retail price knowing that we will find a way to come up with the cash.

Does anyone else wonder why this norinco product is worth $1000 when everything else they make is between $400-$500? It's because we have created a feeding frenzy for it and they know most of us will pay without even thinking about it. To me this rifle isn't "worth" any more than my sub2000 but I'll be buying one anyway because I want a non restricted 223 and I love bullpups.
For me though, I've been on the list for one at Canada Ammo since 2010 and they are the only ones I will ever give my money to for one of these. They took a beating on the original series that were reclassified and confiscated and have done a lot of fighting in court for us so they have earned my respect and cash when these become available even if I have to wait a month or two longer to get it.

ETA? your 100% right, we need to stop expecting them to deliver on their posted ETA. E=estimated, not guaranteed time. Sh!t happens and you can't hold them to the ETA and get you panties in a bunch just because they don't deliver on time.
I still think they should keep their mouth shut at least until there is an FRT issued for the rifle. That way we still get some pre-warning but we don't get all worked up a year in advance.
 
Does anyone else wonder why this norinco product is worth $1000 when everything else they make is between $400-$500? It's because we have created a feeding frenzy for it and they know most of us will pay without even thinking about it. To me this rifle isn't "worth" any more than my sub2000

Not sure I agree here. This rifle had to have some re-designing done to even make it Canada legal after the first fiasco with these rifles, and that equals cash. The going price for Norinco AR-15's is only about 200 or so bucks less than a grand, and those things have been in the country since before I've had my PAL. Bringing in new firearms that had to go through some re-designing in order to even be allowed into the country will usually mean that said firearm will be a bit more expensive than usual. As I recall, Norc AR's were more expensive than they are now when they first came in, and the price dropped a bit. Maybe that will happen here.

Finally, if we look at the competition this rifle will have, a grand seems more and more reasonable. There is no bullpup that is priced anywhere near as low as that, and there really aren't too many "military" non-restricted black rifles with a price tag as low as a grand either. Provided this thing is able to feed and is sturdy, and I'm fairly confident it will be both, I have a feeling $1000 dollars will be a reasonable ask for it.

Just my two cents.
 
I will gladly pay $1000 for it but just think M305 is under $500 and the Norc AR is around $600 so it just seems a little high for a Norinco. The re-engineering really hasn't done anything to the price since they were $850 at CanAm before the fiasco and are only slightly more now.
I've held it and helped reassemble it at P&D, it seemed sturdy and felt well built although it seemed a little awkward to put together, I think it will be easier after a couple tries though.
 
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