The PGW Defence Technologies Inc. 2013 Western Canada F-Class Championship

Longshot said:
Jeez that's a lot of guys having the same problems with different bullets!
What was the cause you figure? Speed?
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With the 190s I can only assume a bad lot of jackets, a member of Germanys team shot them (different lot) at Bisley
this year @3182fps from a 7mm Blaser without issue.
The 210s? the target went down after impact, they just couldn't find the hole.??
The 130s, generally speed and twist.
 
J4 is one of the best and worst jackets made. Their QC is superb but sometimes the jackets are thin or have a 'weak' alloy. This is nothing new and has plagued the product for years. Changes are made and problem goes away for a time. Then it reappears.

Matrix are superbly made bullets and fly very nicely. I am sure every effort is made to ensure nothing but the best.

Jackets are not a part that can be controlled and sometimes things don't go as planned.

I have used JLK bullets and had them go puff in flight. I have not shot a more accuracy 22cal 90gr bullet but not having a hole in paper is a bit frustrating.

I am sure if you dig enough, any custom bullet maker including Berger, have had issues with certain lots of J4 derived bullets going bad.

As long as the quest is to push the shape of bullets into long pointy spikes, the need for thin jackets leading to the very rare failure WILL be part of the mix.

Not good, not bad. Just a part of the evolution of the tech,.

Keep up the good work at Matrix....
Jerry
 
Last batch of photos . . . whew!

Here is some photos from our Door Prize Draw. As it was noted previously, the door prize table featured more than $14K in prizes generously donated by our sponsors.

Steve and Ross from PGW Defence Technology Inc. joined us at the range to help with the Grand Door Prize Draw. They even brought out some of their heavier hardware for display purposes.

If you've forgotten what the Grand Door Prize Draw was, details can be seen here: Grand Door Prize Draw
 
marshman said:
With the 190s I can only assume a bad lot of jackets, a member of Germanys team shot them (different lot) at Bisley
this year @3182fps from a 7mm Blaser without issue.
The 210s? the target went down after impact, they just couldn't find the hole.??
The 130s, generally speed and twist.
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Cannot recall whether they called for a hit or target went down on its own. 9 then a Miss then another 9 in the same spot as the last with Steve.

The 130's were out of a 6.5x47 so not sure on that one.

Shot 200 of another lot of Marshal's bullets with no issues at all. In fact I had the best elevation I had ever had at 800m with the older lot and will shoot them again once he has new jackets.
 
Just so this does thread does not influence any negative feelings toward Matrix bullets, I have a very interesting story to relay, that should be an eye opener for several of us that shot the WCFCC. Being a very analitical kind of guy these type of things do not escape me!! I like to know who my competition is!!
Richard's disappearing bullet happened on the second relay of this match at 800yds, loosing 10 points this early in the match against the group of shooters he is competing with is pretty hard to make up!!!! SOOOO, I say's to him, use my "backup gun" and kick our ass from here on in!! My loner gun is a 260, shooting, guess what!, 142gr MATRIX bullets. SOOO Richard finishes the match in 5th place, not bad. But we have a 22hr drive home, so I say's, hey Rich, I want you to tally all the scores from the Friday 1000yd relay on to the end of match. Pretty boring times driving through the praires ya know! Guess what!! Richard wins that match by 6 points??!!! So the next thing to analyse, cause I can analyse #### too death!! is what happens if we just give him 9 points for his missed shot? he finishes 2nd by 1 or 2 points!!!
So what's the moral of this story you say? Well I would say! Matrix bullets are excellent projectiles, and Richard is second to none in the west anyway,in his shooting abilities. Now if he ever gets his #### together and can make something other than a 6br shoot, we are all in trouble!!!
SOOO not to put him on too high of a pedestal, I must qualify all this. Until Rich can hand us our asses in a palma match, DO not listen too any of his load building advise :>))
And another tidbit is he has used several of the methods often discussed on her for load development!! OCD or is that OCW, whatever, and ladder testing?? ladders?? aren't they for painting?? OH ####! he's a painter, who new!!
Okay I'm at the lake and it's too windy for fishing, hence the finger diarrea :>))
Marc
 
Matrix makes good bullets, period. I have also seen Marshall's bullets go 1640 yds, sub at that distance, but into a good group and all went straight, transition from Super to sub very well. Matrix supports us, so I support him, plus these are custom, hand made Canadian bullets. Myself, I was shooting some light one's at slow speed in my 284 Win, Matrix 168g VLDs at only 2800 fps. Came up with this load back in March at Sac CA, using my poorer 7mm barrel. Why the light ones and the poorer barrel? Don Nagel told me he would be using 168s if not for the US Team telling him to use 180s for the team shoots. He told me the 168s shoot twice as tight as the 180s in his rifle. The reason for the poorer barrel use at the Western's, to save the good one and the 180s for the BIG match, the world individual's in Aug. Marshall also told me if Don would just shot ém out of the box and not point them up, his X count would be higher :)

I was next to Steve at the 1000 were his bullet went astray... Steve was on 2 right and I was 3 left on the line. Leo via radio said it was 5 ft left of the target. Now this could have been a blowup, a big letup or a spanked shot.
 
Kodiak99317 said:
Matrix makes good bullets, period. I have also seen Marshall's bullets go 1640 yds, sub at that distance, but into a good group and all went straight, transition from Super to sub very well. Matrix supports us, so I support him, plus these are custom, hand made Canadian bullets. Myself, I was shooting some light one's at slow speed in my 284 Win, Matrix 168g VLDs at only 2800 fps. Came up with this load back in March at Sac CA, using my poorer 7mm barrel. Why the light ones and the poorer barrel? Don Nagel told me he would be using 168s if not for the US Team telling him to use 180s for the team shoots. He told me the 168s shoot twice as tight as the 180s in his rifle. The reason for the poorer barrel use at the Western's, to save the good one and the 180s for the BIG match, the world individual's in Aug. Marshall also told me if Don would just shot ém out of the box and not point them up, his X count would be higher :)

I was next to Steve at the 1000 were his bullet went astray... Steve was on 2 right and I was 3 left on the line. Leo via radio said it was 5 ft left of the target. Now this could have been a blowup, a big letup or a spanked shot.
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Can't say for sure what happened to my 130 grn jlk 6.5, but I was shooting on target 2 as well and my shots were 10,x,10,x, miss, x,9,10 etc.......There was maybe 1 minute changes out there tops. Leo called back on the radio a miss 5 feet off the target on my fifth shot. My cross hairs came down nicely on number 2 target after recoil. Everything felt great. So to conclude either I hit something in the air or she blewup. I guess we'll never know. Until this point I have not had this happen to me ever. Good experience I guess in that trying to stay focused to finish your relay the best you can no matter what the circumstances are. All in all, it was a awesome weekend of range time with great guys and great shooters.
 
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GSoD said:
Nice segue Richard!

Photos of the awards presentation and winners are up now here: 2013 Awards

There is one award I would like to draw specific attention to. The organizing committee, had two desires to fulfill. One, to create a standing trophy to track the winners of the team shooting competition. Two, to recognize Les Dolhun (prairieguy) for his vision and efforts in founding this pioneering event. To satisfy both desires the organizing committee created the Les Dolhun trophy for Team Shoot Champions. It will travel with the event with the champion names added as it goes.

Here Les presents it to this year's Team Shoot Champs the "Dutch Rudders"
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Don't forget the Coach's name on that....LOL :D
 
I wonder if Steve was caught by one of B.McD's left......right's? This happened previously.....and later because I was on the same team. I heard 2 left and "go on". I questioned this becuase we were already 1 right and it's building. A quick rethink and it became an "oops", 2 right and go on. I have no problems with the coaching. I guess in the heat of the moment, both hands look the same.
Cheers, Glen
Kodiak99317 said:
Matrix makes good bullets, period. I have also seen Marshall's bullets go 1640 yds, sub at that distance, but into a good group and all went straight, transition from Super to sub very well. Matrix supports us, so I support him, plus these are custom, hand made Canadian bullets. Myself, I was shooting some light one's at slow speed in my 284 Win, Matrix 168g VLDs at only 2800 fps. Came up with this load back in March at Sac CA, using my poorer 7mm barrel. Why the light ones and the poorer barrel? Don Nagel told me he would be using 168s if not for the US Team telling him to use 180s for the team shoots. He told me the 168s shoot twice as tight as the 180s in his rifle. The reason for the poorer barrel use at the Western's, to save the good one and the 180s for the BIG match, the world individual's in Aug. Marshall also told me if Don would just shot ém out of the box and not point them up, his X count would be higher :)

I was next to Steve at the 1000 were his bullet went astray... Steve was on 2 right and I was 3 left on the line. Leo via radio said it was 5 ft left of the target. Now this could have been a blowup, a big letup or a spanked shot.
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Yes and yet another possibility is the marker are new to the coreplast(sp) and under pressure to "give it back up" fast. New holes are easy to find if they are in the X,10,9 but harder if out further. Could be it was there and they could not find it. Plus if you shoot right next to the shot indicator peg, they could have covered it with the new blk dot and missed the one right next to it since they covered it!
 
You open guys have it made, better bc, higher weight limit, new barrels all the time and now when you miss you get to call it bullet failure :)

I had a similar scenario. Thankfully it was my second sighter. 8 became a 0 became 9 first on.. But in the FTR world we call that either a miss or turning the scope the wrong way :)
 
GSoD said:
You open guys have it made, better bc, higher weight limit, new barrels all the time and now when you miss you get to call it bullet failure :)

I had a similar scenario. Thankfully it was my second sighter. 8 became a 0 became 9 first on.. But in the FTR world we call that either a miss or turning the scope the wrong way :)
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Yep - the only Matrix bullet I shot that didn't make it to target was my own fault on the scope setting (need to start carrying a magnifying glass for the new NF Competition I guess ... and soon a cane ...) ... in all fairness tho' Sean, Rich did have a witness to his blow-up. Not so sure 'bout the others now ...;)

:popCorn:
 
Guys
My personal feeling is that either I crossfired (nobody said anything on the line to either side) or the bullet pullers didn't find my bullet hole. I shot and the target went down as normal. They saw something hit the berm behind and pulled the target. That indicates to me that the pullers saw the bullet hit the target and it didn't blow up. Usually bullets that blow up do so like Richards about 100 - 300 yards out. For the record, I do not believe that the 210 Matrix blew up. All we can say is that the markers didn't find a hole. Keith, you were referring to my 1000 individual target where I had problems getting my head together. I had two misses for sighters then first on score was an X. I got a hint that I was between the targets. Different relay.

Marshal makes really good stuff and I won last years "Running of the V-Bulls" with them so they are good bullets.

Steve
 
SteveB said:
Guys
My personal feeling is that either I crossfired (nobody said anything on the line to either side) or the bullet pullers didn't find my bullet hole. I shot and the target went down as normal. They saw something hit the berm behind and pulled the target. That indicates to me that the pullers saw the bullet hit the target and it didn't blow up. Usually bullets that blow up do so like Richards about 100 - 300 yards out. For the record, I do not believe that the 210 Matrix blew up. All we can say is that the markers didn't find a hole. Keith, you were referring to my 1000 individual target where I had problems getting my head together. I had two misses for sighters then first on score was an X. I got a hint that I was between the targets. Different relay.

Marshal makes really good stuff and I won last years "Running of the V-Bulls" with them so they are good bullets.

Steve
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Steve, no one said that Marshal doesn't make a good product and if anyone got that impression then they didn't read this thread to completion .

Word after the team match was that you lost a bullet, it was my understanding that it didn't make it to target but I have been corrected. Thanks for clarifying.

Now I need Marshal to get a sh1tload of jackets in tomorrow, pump out 500-1000 190's over the weekend and get them to my house for Monday. :-D
 
Incase anyone has any doubts about Matrix bullets, here is a group shot last night with the same 190's. Yes, all 5 rounds made it to the target. :D

I do believe that this is a one off possible bad lot of jackets and as stated I would have no qualms about shooting more in the future.
IMG_20130718_005832.jpg
 
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