From 22 cal to 9mm What's in between in factory ammo

Stevo said:
Depends on the dealer and the brand. Canada Ammo has Norinco ball for $280/1120 right now. Not match grade to be sure, but good for plinking and practice. Budget Shooter Supply has Wolf steel cased .223 for $315/1000 and it shoots well in my short ARs. Personally, I wouldn't pay over $400/1000 right now for .223, and it would have to be US or Euro brass cased, boxer primed ammo at that price.
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For such a popular calibre one would think that factory ammo would be inline with 9MM or less
 
silverfoxdj said:
There is a lot of talk about saving the price of ammo by buying cheaper calibre guns and conversion kits so one can save money and get more range time.

But how is it that there is such a wide gap from .05 cents to about .25 cents with not much in between ? (And don't say reloading is the answer)

I am looking at stepping up from a 22 cal target rifle to a 223 because it was supposed to be so much cheaper, is it? (compared to what)

There is a gap in the pricing / product scale somewhere what am I missing..
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Someone already addressed the reason for the price jump due to component cost between the two: Perhaps the question you are unintentionally asking "Why is there not a very popular 22 Hornet loaded with cast 40gr bullets?" It is because of popularity, and therefore availability that certain centerfire calibers are dirt cheap in relation to other centerfire calibers, but still the individual component factor trumps all. Seems a halfway round might be found in a 22 Hornet size, (if popularity caught on it could even be 25-20 or 32-20...) with more economical components... but everyone would have to buy it to prompt the gears of industry to churn out ammo: Surplus will retain the crown in the category you mention, until it runs out and China no longer takes up the slack.

I appreciate being able to shoot cheaper components, and with no recoil, the humble 22LR is still the caliber most pleasant to shoot, spur of the moment when company comes...training nephews/nieces or my own kids when they arrive, I will always shoot it most.
 
New Camper said:
Someone already addressed the reason for the price jump due to component cost between the two: Perhaps the question you are unintentionally asking "Why is there not a very popular 22 Hornet loaded with cast 40gr bullets?" It is because of popularity, and therefore availability that certain centerfire calibers are dirt cheap in relation to other centerfire calibers, but still the individual component factor trumps all. Seems a halfway round might be found in a 22 Hornet size, (if popularity caught on it could even be 25-20 or 32-20...) with more economical components... but everyone would have to buy it to prompt the gears of industry to churn out ammo: Surplus will retain the crown in the category you mention, until it runs out and China no longer takes up the slack.

I appreciate being able to shoot cheaper components, and with no recoil, the humble 22LR is still the caliber most pleasant to shoot, spur of the moment when company comes...training nephews/nieces or my own kids when they arrive, I will always shoot it most.
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The thing is I can get that component costs have gone up but it appears that 223 is staying artificially high in comparisom to 9MM..
 
silverfoxdj said:
The thing is I can get that component costs have gone up but it appears that 223 is staying artificially high in comparisom to 9MM..
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sorry, I missed that comparison. It hardly makes sense too, because a 9mm bullet weighs over twice that of the 223, granted the 223 will need a more significant jacket, powder cost difference is marginal, primers the same.

Availability? In response to threats of black rifle bans in the US, people scramble(d) to get them and lifetime stockpiles of ammo, where the 9mm although affected by that trend, was to a lesser degree; is the only reason I can think of.
 
New Camper said:
sorry, I missed that comparison. It hardly makes sense too, because a 9mm bullet weighs over twice that of the 223, granted the 223 will need a more significant jacket, powder cost difference is marginal, primers the same.

Availability? In response to threats of black rifle bans in the US, people scramble(d) to get them and lifetime stockpiles of ammo, where the 9mm although affected by that trend, was to a lesser degree; is the only reason I can think of.
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My only thought is that the manufactures are trying to cash in and expect people are moving down to 223 from higher calibres any they want a good chuck of that profit till they are forced to realign the prices.

Stevo mentioned that 223 was "reasonable" before... but not so much right now, it is certainly not that it is a calibre that is unpopular or limited in it's use...
 
How about this... has anyone thought of the cost of the brass for the casing? How about the additional tooling and effort to produce a necked case versus straight walled pistol calibers. How about packaging and shipping? Obviously the required packaging and volume of space for rifle cartridges is more than 9mm packaging and space.
 
coreyd said:
How about this... has anyone thought of the cost of the brass for the casing? How about the additional tooling and effort to produce a necked case versus straight walled pistol calibers. How about packaging and shipping? Obviously the required packaging and volume of space for rifle cartridges is more than 9mm packaging and space.
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Good point but this is not a new round in production it's been around for awhile..so the tooling would have been paid for ..as Stevo said it used to be a lot cheaper..
 
I'm surprised that they havn't found something cheaper to produce than brass for the casings. There must be another suitable material out there.
 
There probably is a plastic today that would work, but I'm sure it would be no good after it was used once. I imagine they should be able to produce them a lot cheaper as well.
 
Magellann said:
It wouldn't matter if it was cheaper, I'm sure 99% only reload to save money, or make ammo that unavailable commercially.
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Yes, there is the attraction of economics, however it is not 99% that: Some enjoy reloading as a hobby, as you stated rare ammunition, but probably the bulk of reloaders (not the number of reloaded rounds) do it for consistency. Only a few calibers are factory loaded with match components and to an OCD standard, but all calibers can be done this way with reloading and it is accuracy through consistency that probably accounts for the greatest number of reloaders.
 
I dont understand how its cheaper to reload, you need supplies and all that, how soon do you get your money back and also its alot of time to do it
 
Well my sense is you work for free and if you shoot about 5k rounds minimum in 9MM at least you will be able to shoot more, the payback for equipment and supplys to allow you to do this maybe a couple of years.

That's my rough understanding of it. It makes sense to me if you want to drill down for more accuracy and do custom loads for target shooting and hunting or you just like to do it as a hobby.
 
coreyd said:
How about this... has anyone thought of the cost of the brass for the casing? How about the additional tooling and effort to produce a necked case versus straight walled pistol calibers. How about packaging and shipping? Obviously the required packaging and volume of space for rifle cartridges is more than 9mm packaging and space.
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I alluded to the extra costs associated with the rifle brass in post 10, but didn't mention the more complicated case shape or packaging, which are also good points.


transporteRR said:
I dont understand how its cheaper to reload, you need supplies and all that, how soon do you get your money back and also its alot of time to do it
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You can reload for less than commercial ammo because you can buy the individual components for less than what an assembled round costs. How much you save and how long it takes to break even depend greatly on what cartridges you are reloading for, what type of ammo you are reloading, how much you shoot and what reloading equipment you buy. You won't save much (if anything) loading 9mm as compared to commercial reloads, but you can save a fortune reloading major rifle cartridges. Some examples from my reloading bench:


  • .44 Mag loaded with cast bullets for about $0.20/round for plinking loads and $0.25/round for full house loads. Factory ammo is more like $0.70+/round.
  • .338 Win Mag for ~$1.50/round using premium hunting bullets, commercial ammo with similar components is $3+/round.
  • 9mm loaded with plated bullets for ~$0.16/round. Commercial reloads are about $0.21/round, but I need the plated bullets for shooting steel and can't get that commercially reloaded anywhere that I know of. Otherwise, the small savings wouldn't be worth the time to me.
  • .223 for my AR with 69gr BTHP bulk bullets for ~$0.32/round. Norinco ammo is comparable in price, but not even close in quality or accuracy because I developed the load to suit my rifle.

I don't think I know anybody that only reloads to save money. Many people will tell you that you don't save any money, you simply shoot more for the same cost and there is some truth in that. The bigger benefits are the ability to load custom ammo to suit your gun and purpose, loading for calibers that don't have commercial ammo available, making match quality ammo for standard quality commercial ammo costs and not being held hostage to ammo supply problems.

The last one is huge in my eyes, all of the "where can I find ### caliber ammo" threads mean nothing to me. If I need more of whatever caliber, I simply go downstairs and load up what I need. I stock up on components when they are available and then load them as needed. I haven't bought commercial centerfire ammo for handgun or rifle for several years now and don't plan to for a long while to come.


Mark
 
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