Hard choice and need help.. IWI tavor tar 21 or H&K SL8-4

Brian46 said:
for the SL8 you can either do the hera kit and use any AR stock or a G36 conversion to fix the stock ( I have no issue using the factory one). Heavy? compared to what?. The factory sight rail makes the optics sit high, get the lower profile scope rail. Mag well adapter.....Why? You can modify factory one to take G36 mags or buy speer 5/30 mags from wolverine (both are better quality than the AR mags I have used)

as for the Tavor, I haven't read about anyone being able to improve the trigger or accuracy
Click to expand...

Yah you can do the srping removal for the tavor trigger.
As far as accuracy well the tavor does have an 18.5 inch barrel, its just not built to be a 500 yard 1 moa rifle, but it's damn reliable, light, balanced, fast to move around, fast for mag changes.
I have a Tavor with a specter dr and it's fine for me to 100 yards, past that well things are just fuzzy anyway.
 
gunnut604 said:
One thing I will say about them is the tavor will take just about any ammunition and cycle reliably but the sl8-4 requires premium ammunition. Had some great success with some 62gr. ammunition the other day...
Click to expand...

That's interesting that your SL8 needs premium ammo.

To the OP: My SL8 will digest anything i feed it no problems at all. I get very good accuracy out of a wide range of bullet weights. As for the thumb hole stock it seems to be a love it or hate it kind of thing. Fits me well and I find it very comfortable. I have no experience with the Tavor but it is on my 'list' of rifles to own. Like others have pointed out I think both rifles are great but are just maybe a little bit too different to make a direct comparison. Only one thing to do... save your pennies and get both!
 
Tavor will sit nicer on a quad than a full size rifle. Its smaller wich seems to be what youd want. I also think due to the fact that its mainly polymer it will take the beating of hunting a bit better and maybe the odd fall off a quad
 
ted_dent said:
First of all you're probably looking at a $600-800 price difference. Good used HKs typically go for $1800-2000 while it's rare to see a used Tavor for under $2600. This is a factor because for the difference you can upgrade the HK stock to a G36 style, eliminating a lot of the weight and ergonomic arguments against the HK.
Click to expand...
That's a good point.

loki_81 said:
For those talking about weight difference for a "walking" rifle;

H&K SL8 with 20.08" barrel, 8.6 lbs
IWI Tavor with 18.1" barrel, 8.1 lbs

Pure stock and unaltered values here of course. If a person were to go with lighter aftermarket parts the SL8 could come in at the same weight or lighter than the Tavor. The Tavor has very little option in parts swapping to become any lighter.

So if you're walking around the weight difference is nearly negligible, as I assume you're going to have some kind of load bearing device such as a sling or backpack that you're going to carry either rifle with. Where the Tavor would excel is in the rearward placement of the weight for holding on target for a given length of time. With the Tavor having the weight positioned to the rear a person can hold on target for longer periods, but slung on the back or in a pack it makes little difference.
Click to expand...
Also good points--I agree that the rearward balance and short OAL of the Tavor makes it feel much "handier" than the SL8. To me the SL8 is almost a great rifle--it's reliable for sure, trigger pull is OK, and its accuracy is pretty good as well. The Hera ACR stock conversions look to be well done...and if only there was an easy way to get a medium or light profile barrel it'd be the rifle to beat. A 20" heavy barrel just doesn't do it for me in an all-purpose rifle.
 
Master-G said:
That's a good point.


Also good points--I agree that the rearward balance and short OAL of the Tavor makes it feel much "handier" than the SL8. To me the SL8 is almost a great rifle--it's reliable for sure, trigger pull is OK, and its accuracy is pretty good as well. The Hera ACR stock conversions look to be well done...and if only there was an easy way to get a medium or light profile barrel it'd be the rifle to beat. A 20" heavy barrel just doesn't do it for me in an all-purpose rifle.
Click to expand...

When I think "heavy barrel" I think something nearing 1 inch in diameter. The HK barrel is definitely no more than 3/4" diameter so I really don't think it qualifies as a true "heavy barrel". I haven't held a Tavor since the SHOT Show in Jan. but I don't recall it having a really thin barrel so I don't know if the comparative barrel weights plus the extra 1 1/2" of barrel on the HK would be significant.
 
ted_dent said:
When I think "heavy barrel" I think something nearing 1 inch in diameter. The HK barrel is definitely no more than 3/4" diameter so I really don't think it qualifies as a true "heavy barrel". I haven't held a Tavor since the SHOT Show in Jan. but I don't recall it having a really thin barrel so I don't know if the comparative barrel weights plus the extra 1 1/2" of barrel on the HK would be significant.
Click to expand...
It's not just the difference in weight, it's also the fact that the barrel is much closer to the shooter's body with the Tavor that it feels significantly "handier" than the SL8.
 
^^^ This! You nailed it right on.

It's not just about weight, it's about balance of that weight when the rifle is put to the shoulder.
 
German made guns vs. Jewish made guns.... Hmm, there's a comment of some kind to be made here.

Personally I think you can't go wrong but I only own the Tavor. Had an HK P30 that I loved but sold cause I couldn't be bother with restricted guns.

Look at the resale values on the EE, worse case you might lose a couple bucks but not much if you buy them used. I did, I owned a number of XCR's and they all functioned fantastically, but every time I grab the Tavor I'm grinning for the next day or too!
 
A buddy of mine unthumholed his SL8. Made it pretty cool. Have to say I've always been of a mixed mind on the SL8. On the one hand I wanted one but I went with the Swiss Arms PE90 instead. I guess we'll find out soon enough if that was a mistake.

Here's Fireball's SL8. He managed to remodel a thumbhole grip to a pistol grip. Looks factory made in real life. He did an awesome job on it.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?683332-How-I-un-thumb-holed-my-SL8-stock

16f43f28.jpg


10cf4215.jpg


73a0f1b7.jpg
 
WOW, that's a whole lot of comments overnight!!! Keep them coming.. so far, it's helping out but still need to make my mind..

The price difference between both NEW is not really a factor. The only SL8 you can find on the EE are pimped out to look like a G36 for about 4000$... I don't need that! Like some of you said, the folding stock would be really nice. I looked on the Wolverine website and the magwell conversion kit (150$), the ACR folding stock (220$) and the lower (485) would run for 855$ on top of a new SL8-4 (2399.00) bring it to around 3700.00 with shipping and taxes... Also found a low pro rail for 99$ on the net. Yes, quality comes with a price tag but it's kinda getting expensive. I would for sure try it with the regular stock and if I really don't like it, I would order the conversion kit.. So hard to make my mind on something like that. If I could, I'd buy both but the ol'lady would probably shoot me with one of them (I'M JOKING)!!!

As far as the Tavor, I've seen people taking out a little spring or stretching it a little.. is that really helping out? Also, a buddy of mine knows someone who owns one and will hook me up with him so I can try it... damn! We shall see!

So far, I have to say that the SL8 with a folding stock would be nice as far as being handy to carry. Also, you can clip a bipod on it without interfering with the way you hold the firearm.. a big plus IMO..

Guys, keep the comments/recommendations coming my way. So far, I've seen really good points for both firearms and it's helping out!

Also, whenever I'll have made the purchase, whoever is member of Petawawa's base gun club will be welcome to give it a shot!!!

Once again, thanks guys/gals! Gotta love this forum and all the help we can get from it!
 
SL8...with GOOD ammo is mad accurate...anyone telling you otherwise was probably shooting 55gr dirty bird and/or is a bad shot. Its a tad heavy...but man up, get one less burger at McHeartAttacks and you'll be thankful in the long run. MEN (half) our size where carrying full steel and wooden guns in WWII and I can promise you they were not crying about it!!!
 
Epoxy7 said:
A buddy of mine unthumholed his SL8. Made it pretty cool. Have to say I've always been of a mixed mind on the SL8. On the one hand I wanted one but I went with the Swiss Arms PE90 instead. I guess we'll find out soon enough if that was a mistake.

Here's Fireball's SL8. He managed to remodel a thumbhole grip to a pistol grip. Looks factory made in real life. He did an awesome job on it.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?683332-How-I-un-thumb-holed-my-SL8-stock

16f43f28.jpg


10cf4215.jpg


73a0f1b7.jpg
Click to expand...

Agreed...looks great!!!

I too have a Swiss Arms and hope nothing bad happens to them (wrongly). At the very LEAST if we have to turn them in we all would have $3,200.00 to spend on a new a toy(s).
 
jeffcarr88 said:
SL8...with GOOD ammo is mad accurate...anyone telling you otherwise was probably shooting 55gr dirty bird and/or is a bad shot.
Click to expand...
I shot Lapua Aficionado in mine for accuracy testing—it's the most accurate .223 factory ammo I've used—and mine was about as accurate as a good AR15...about 1.5MOA or so. Good for sure, but not astoundingly good.

jeffcarr88 said:
Its a tad heavy...but man up, get one less burger at McHeartAttacks and you'll be thankful in the long run. MEN (half) our size where carrying full steel and wooden guns in WWII and I can promise you they were not crying about it!!!
Click to expand...
I get where you're coming from here but no matter how strong you are or how good shape you're in, a lighter and handier rifle will still be lighter and handier.

yan014 said:
As far as the Tavor, I've seen people taking out a little spring or stretching it a little.. is that really helping out?
Click to expand...
Yes, it does make a difference—once it's done the trigger is not that much different than a factory AR15.
 
The reasons I've managed to avoid buying a SL8 so far:

1) Cost. Once you modify the rifle the cost skyrockets. It was cheaper for me to buy a Swiss Arms target than to mod the SL8. The PE90 came complete as a military styled rifle. No need to buy stock conversions etc to get a folder. Also while the SL8 looks good as a G36 or as an ACR style it's not cost effective. I could buy an ACR with non restricted match barrel for around the same price when they show up on the EE.

2) Not a fan of the optics rail. While I like the ambi charging handle enough I don't like the way the rail bridges. This probably isn't an issue but it just seems like a bad idea for accuracy.

Ultimately the cost is the main issue. There are other firearms that meet this niche and whenever I do a cost analysis they seem to win. Every once in a while however I take another look at the SL8. Maybe someday.
 
Last edited:
OP, just a head's up, I saw an SL8 on the EE today with the Hera conversion and ACR stock for $2400+shipping. This is a good price, and I would have scooped it up except Canada Post is currently in the process of delivering my SL8-5 from PGT and my Hera and stock from Wolverine that I paid (considerably more combined) for last week. I'm pretty excited about the whole thing, and will let you know how it works out. Can't offer opinions between the IWI or the HK as I haven't shot either one of them, but will remedy half of that equation sometime next week! Personally didn't (still don't actually) have much interest in the Tavor, but seems like a lot of owners love them. Good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy either one, or will be able to recoup your losses and try again.

(edited)
PS, Where'd you see the low profile rail for $99?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom