Tracer Loads? anyone have successful ones?

Eagleye said:
Truer words were never spoken!!
Likes a large post count....logic or truth do not matter.
Eagleye.
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Ya I know but his comment about air made me remember the article I saw about tracers that ignited by air friction with the compound at the front of the bullet. Maybe that's why they never became popular as the trace compound on the nose of the bullet would be hard for the shooter to see maybe LOL.
 
I would really like to see this article about "air friction ignition". I mean if the air rushing by sets it off it would be interesting to see what loose rounds would do in a can or god forbid someones pack or pocket.
 
sunray said:
"...successful tracer loads..." Successful in what way? The trace element is not lit by the powder, so load for the bullet weight. Just like any other bullet.
"...at about 800 yards..." If the trace element hasn't lit long before the bullet has gone that far, it won't. The trace element usually lights well under 100 yards with any calibre.
"...making a "pin hole"..." The trace element is a phosphorus compound. Phosphorus ingnites in air.
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Baloney! Tracer element is mostly magnesium. Incendiary rounds have a phosphorous payload. The question was about tracer ammo only not APIT or spotting rounds.
 
"...the tracer element lit..." It's a phosphorus compound that burns in air(oxygen, not friction.). And even .50 BMG trace doesn't light until it's about 100 + yards/meters from the muzzle.
"...He is misinformed..." Forgotten more than most people. 30 plus years of experience does that.
 
So what lights the 'phosphorus'? Exposure to air? How did they load them?

The trace 'lights' in the barrel from powder... just because it's not burning 'enough' to see within 100 yards, doesn't mean it's not burning.
 
sunray said:
Forgotten more than most people. 30 plus years of experience does that.
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I find that quite funny considering you have proven time and time again that you don't know what you think you do. You might be on to something, maybe you have forgotten most of it.

Maybe instead of funny I should say scary as one day someone will get hurt taking advice from you.
 
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some people should take a science class sometime.... phosphorus is ignited by the friction of the bullet moving through the air. I have a box of American eagle tracers that states it right on the box.

also they wont light just sitting in the air, they need to be shot. its pretty funny how people attack without getting their own doubts straight. maybe there are other kinds, but if its phosphorus dipped, its the way she goes.
 
Well I only have 34 years in the Ammunition/Explosives world, but I have always believed that when you are trying to make a point, the surest way to get someone's attention is to provide chapter and verse where the facts can be verified. Please keep in mind that different countries use different chemical compositions in the making of both the igniter and tracer compositions which can give off different colours.

Military Explosives (1955) TM 9-1910 Page 292 Para 104: General

a) "In small arms cartridge tracers, the rear of the bullet has a cavity into which are loaded tracer and igniter composition, using a pressure of 70,000 to 85,000 psi."

b)" In effect, the tracer composition is ignited by the hot gases resulting from burning of the propellent charge. However, since tracer compositions are relatively difficult to ignite, there is loaded on top of the tracer composition a much more easily ignitable igniter composition. This is generally done with a stepped ram. As a brilliant light from the igniter composition may dazzle the eye of the gunner and the completely visible trajectory of the round would betray the position of the weapon, a "dim igniter" composition is used. Igniter as well as tracer compositions are classified as pyrotechnic compositions because of their compositions and their production of light when burned."

During the 40's-'60's U.S. tracer compositions contained various percentages of the following chemicals
1) Magnesium
2) Magnesium-aluminum alloy
3) Chlorinated Rubber
4) Strontium Nitrate
5) Barium Peroxide
6) Calcium Resinate
7) Polyvinyl chloride

In accordance with the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corp Bulletins(Feb 1972) in the .30 Caliber M25 Tracer Cartridge produced for the Canadian Army, 50.0 grains of IMR 4895 was used for the 146.5 grain bullet.

I would be very interested to see any reference regarding "phosphorous" used in TRACER ammunition.
 
There are several grades of phosphorus and yes white phosphorus will spontaneously ignite when exposed to air(oxygen). Not entirely sure what grade is used in tracers but definetly not a good idea to start making pinholes. I've been told by a friend who has reloaded quite a few .223 that h335 gave the best results for him fwiw
 
This thread is solid proof that people can become less informed if they choose to believe everything on the internet.

Wiki versus 34 years of military service.

decisions, decisions.......:rolleyes:

PS: That Wiki article breathlessly points out APIT, spotting rounds, incendiary rounds, and various signalling type flare rounds along with tracers, with little technical discussion between each. It certainly leaves everything gray instead of black and white. Myself I would fall back to Garand's informed opinion that anything solely mentioned as a tracer and a tracer only, would not have phosphorous present. (Post-WW2 using NATO standards of marking IE: a red tipped bullet)

my two bits only.........

Or you are free to believe sunray.
 
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TheCanAm said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong... I thought tracer rounds were illegal in Canada because they were classified as an "Other Explosive Agent" or some such designation.

???
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Illegal to sell, because they haven't been tested and approved by NRCAN. If they have been tested and approved, then they're fine to be imported and sold. But even if they are not approved for sale, they are not illegal to own.
 
back40sniper said:
Loose rounds would "rub" together in can,pack or pocket, ergo friction. Rubbing together would make more friction than air I would think?
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You would be underestimating the amount of friction caused by a bullet travelling through the air at 1200FPS! I'm not new! Been around for a little while and was just stating what I have seen in the past. There WAS a article I saw years ago that had a bullet with a cavity in the nose that had a compound loaded into it that when shot ignited from air friction because it was travelling super sonic.

If you think you can throw/run around with bullets in your pocket/ect ect at supersonic speeds your wrong. You could however have a point that maybe these rounds were impact sensitive or something and that's why they never caught on! I don't know; I've only ever seen the 1 article about them and that was years ago now.
 
dastt said:
some people should take a science class sometime.... phosphorus is ignited by the friction of the bullet moving through the air. I have a box of American eagle tracers that states it right on the box.

also they wont light just sitting in the air, they need to be shot. its pretty funny how people attack without getting their own doubts straight. maybe there are other kinds, but if its phosphorus dipped, its the way she goes.
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Can you post a pic of the box? The article I saw I think was from a small niche manufacturer; I don't think it was a large company like AM but it could have been. Some People here are not getting how much friction and heat is caused by a bullet moving through the air at supersonic speeds and that it could be used to ignite a tracer compound on the nose of the bullet.
 
TheCanAm said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong... I thought tracer rounds were illegal in Canada because they were classified as an "Other Explosive Agent" or some such designation.

???
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Can you keep that in the other 2 threads going about it in ammo and general discussion, lets try not to derail the thread more than it already is. Still hoping someone might share their recipes.
 
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