The fading .40 S&W

Melnibonean

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From MAC's article in "The Bang Switch". What does everyone think? Is there something to these points?


http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-fading-40/


"I've never been a fan of the .40 S&W cartridge and I explained why in my “Teats, Bulls and the .40 S&W” article of June 22nd. While I never jumped on the .40 bandwagon, many police departments across the nation did in the 1990′s. That appears to be slowly changing.

I see regular news stories, some dating back several years, documenting the switch back to 9mm by PD’s nationwide. The reasons given for the switch to 9mm vary, but most PD’s feel the .40 S&W lowers hit probability and are concerned with the reduction in capacity. Back in 2011 the Wichita (KS) police made the switch back to 9mm from .40. Their tactical firearms instructor at the time said that “many officers’ shooting scores have been bad ever since the department armed with the .40-caliber handguns.”

This seems to be a fairly common theme, many departments have seen their qualification scores drop after switching to the .40 S&W. In an article from July 29th of this year, Chief Doug Barthel of the Sioux Falls (SD) PD said “the pistols have better accuracy and the ability to carry two more bullets than the [.40] Glocks.”

Columbia (SC) made a similar switch back to 9mm, swapping their Sig .45 ACP handguns for FN 9mm’s. Assistant Police Chief Ruben Santiago said officers will have improved accuracy with the lighter handgun, which doesn’t have as much recoil as the Sig .45-caliber pistols they’re replacing.

In 2011 the St. Paul (MN) PD switched from .40 back to the 9mm as well. The St. Paul PD started off with 9mm’s then switched to .40 S&W 18 years ago when the .40 S&W craze was sweeping PD’s across the nation. At the time when the switch occurred, 9mm ammo wasn’t performing as well as it does today with modern bullet technology. According to Sgt. Cory Tell “the performance of 9mm ammunition has changed dramatically and it’s much more powerful than it previously was.”


This is something I’ve talked about as well, modern 9mm bullet technology has leveled the playing field. When many of the police departments were jumping to .40 S&W, bullet technology was still in its infancy which helped to fuel the switch-over to .40. PD’s felt bigger was better in the absence of quality bullet designs. Today we have an assortment of modern high-performance 9mm loads that offer better penetration and expansion than loads on the market back in the 1990′s. A modern 9mm easily rivals the best .40 S&W or .45 ACP round in terms of ballistic performance and in real-world shootings. Even the FBI, who lead the charge in developing the .40 S&W, now authorizes their agents to carry 9mm service pistols.

The 9mm isn’t just making a comeback in police circles, most of the nations top firearms instructors also prefer 9mm handguns. Here’s a list of a few big names in the training world and their caliber of choice. This list is captured from public sources.

Trainer. Gun(s) / Caliber

Travis Haley Glock 17 9mm (also 9mm M&P)
Massad Ayoob Glock 17 9mm
Chris Costa S&W M&P 9mm
Larry Vickers Glock 17/19 9mm
Gabe Suarez Glock 17 9mm
Rob Pincus 9mm (recommends a variety of handguns in this caliber)
Paul Gomez (RIP) Glock 17/19 9mm
James Yeager Glock 19 9mm
Andy Stanford Glock 19 9mm
Kelly McCann Glock 19 9mm
Jason Falla Glock 17 9mm
Michael Janich Glock 17 9mm
Dave Spaulding Glock 19 9mm (sometimes Ruger SR9c)

It seems .40 S&W continues to fall out of favor with more people coming to the realization the 9mm offers higher capacity, lower recoil, lower training costs and solid terminal ballistics when compared to the .40 S&W. During the last gun buying craze every caliber from .22LR to .45 ACP was absent from shelves around the country, however most people reported ample supplies of .40 S&W sitting around. Obviously this is a bonus for the .40 S&W since in times of crisis you might have a better shot at finding ammo, but does this single point outweigh the other benefits of using 9mm? That doesn’t appear to be the case as it seems not only the police and trainers are moving away from the .40 S&W but the general gun buying public is too."
 
Bullet technology that improves the 9 has also improved the .40 and .45. I know hating the .40 is in vogue but it's just another caliber. If police departments cared about their scores shooting up, they'd switch to the .22LR ;)

Not saying that the 9mm hasn't come a long way, but there's a place for all pistol calibers out there. This is coming from a guy with three 9mms and one .40.
 
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40 is my least favourite calibre. I like the big show of the 45 and I like light recoil of the 9mm... since I can afford to own both, there is no reason to own a "compromise calibre".
 
There are always plenty of .40 casings laying around at my range...

As a guy who shoots .22, 9mm, .45 and 7.62 X 25, I have NO experience with .40 cal. How does it compare to 10mm? Hardly ever see 10mm. Was that the caliber to hate on before .40?
 
Bullet technology that improves the 9 has also improved the .40 and .45. I know hating the .40 is in vogue but it's just another caliber. If police departments cared about their scores shooting up, they'd switch to the .22LR ;)
+1

40 is my least favourite calibre. I like the big show of the 45 and I like light recoil of the 9mm... since I can afford to own both, there is no reason to own a "compromise calibre".
You should drop your 9mm and pick up a 22LR since you don't like to compromise

There are always plenty of .40 casings laying around at my range...

As a guy who shoots .22, 9mm, .45 and 7.62 X 25, I have NO experience with .40 cal. How does it compare to 10mm? Hardly ever see 10mm. Was that the caliber to hate on before .40?

I think it may have actually been 45 - right about the time the US switched to the M9 because 45 was too slow and pistols didn't have enough capacity.

The 9mm folks are always picking on the bigger calibres!
 
Shoot what you want and can afford to shoot. Who cares what others think? This isn't a pissing contest. I'm keeping my ammo to 9mm, .357 and .22LR... For now. I'm sure I'll end up with a .45 in the future, probably a .44 too. I can't see a .40 anytime soon, but not because the "experts" hate it.
 
There are always plenty of .40 casings laying around at my range...

As a guy who shoots .22, 9mm, .45 and 7.62 X 25, I have NO experience with .40 cal. How does it compare to 10mm? Hardly ever see 10mm. Was that the caliber to hate on before .40?

.40 doesn't compare to 10mm unless of course you are just buying modern factory ammo for the 10mm.

The 10mm delivers 200-300lbs pounds more of energy across the board then the .40 S&W depending on bullet weight. A full load 10mm is definitely a handful, rings gongs quite nicely lol.
 
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There are always plenty of .40 casings laying around at my range...

As a guy who shoots .22, 9mm, .45 and 7.62 X 25, I have NO experience with .40 cal. How does it compare to 10mm? Hardly ever see 10mm. Was that the caliber to hate on before .40?

Performance wise the 10mm is about 200 fps faster with 180 grain pills. (Same bullets 10mm=40 cal) The 10mm was being tested by the FBI for their new service pistols when Winchester and S&W threw together the 40 S&W last minute and got the contract. I think the only big advantage to the 40 over the 10 was the ability to function in a 9mm sized pistol, giving them more options with proven designs.

* just watched the video ^^ beat me to it
 
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I hated the G22 and I blamed the calibre. Turns out it was just me shooting like poo. I have an M&P40 now and I enjoy it a lot. It is expensive to feed, though.
 
Performance wise the 10mm is about 200 fps faster with 180 grain pills. (Same bullets 10mm=40 cal) The 10mm was being ISSUED by the FBI for their new service pistols when Winchester and S&W threw together the 40 S&W last minute and got the contract. I think the only big advantage to the 40 over the 10 was the ability to function in a 9mm sized pistol, giving them more options with proven designs.

* just watched the video ^^ beat me to it

Fixed it for you - Smith 1076. It was large and they were issued initially with full-charge 10mm ammo (180gr @ 11-1200) which was too rompin' stompin' for most so guys were leaving them in the car or their briefcase instead of carrying them all the time. .40 S&W let them shoehorn a 180 @ 950 into a 9mm format pistol which guys would carry and shoot all the time without suffering singed eyebrows...
 
Meh, i'll stick with my hot 200grainers in my 10mm. Not only rings the gongs but breaks the chains occasionally too.
 
From MAC's article in "The Bang Switch". What does everyone think? Is there something to these points?


http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-fading-40/


"I've never been a fan of the .40 S&W cartridge and I explained why in my “Teats, Bulls and the .40 S&W” article of June 22nd. While I never jumped on the .40 bandwagon, many police departments across the nation did in the 1990′s. That appears to be slowly changing.

I see regular news stories, some dating back several years, documenting the switch back to 9mm by PD’s nationwide. The reasons given for the switch to 9mm vary, but most PD’s feel the .40 S&W lowers hit probability and are concerned with the reduction in capacity. Back in 2011 the Wichita (KS) police made the switch back to 9mm from .40. Their tactical firearms instructor at the time said that “many officers’ shooting scores have been bad ever since the department armed with the .40-caliber handguns.”

This seems to be a fairly common theme, many departments have seen their qualification scores drop after switching to the .40 S&W. In an article from July 29th of this year, Chief Doug Barthel of the Sioux Falls (SD) PD said “the pistols have better accuracy and the ability to carry two more bullets than the [.40] Glocks.”

Columbia (SC) made a similar switch back to 9mm, swapping their Sig .45 ACP handguns for FN 9mm’s. Assistant Police Chief Ruben Santiago said officers will have improved accuracy with the lighter handgun, which doesn’t have as much recoil as the Sig .45-caliber pistols they’re replacing.

In 2011 the St. Paul (MN) PD switched from .40 back to the 9mm as well. The St. Paul PD started off with 9mm’s then switched to .40 S&W 18 years ago when the .40 S&W craze was sweeping PD’s across the nation. At the time when the switch occurred, 9mm ammo wasn’t performing as well as it does today with modern bullet technology. According to Sgt. Cory Tell “the performance of 9mm ammunition has changed dramatically and it’s much more powerful than it previously was.”


This is something I’ve talked about as well, modern 9mm bullet technology has leveled the playing field. When many of the police departments were jumping to .40 S&W, bullet technology was still in its infancy which helped to fuel the switch-over to .40. PD’s felt bigger was better in the absence of quality bullet designs. Today we have an assortment of modern high-performance 9mm loads that offer better penetration and expansion than loads on the market back in the 1990′s. A modern 9mm easily rivals the best .40 S&W or .45 ACP round in terms of ballistic performance and in real-world shootings. Even the FBI, who lead the charge in developing the .40 S&W, now authorizes their agents to carry 9mm service pistols.

The 9mm isn’t just making a comeback in police circles, most of the nations top firearms instructors also prefer 9mm handguns. Here’s a list of a few big names in the training world and their caliber of choice. This list is captured from public sources.

Trainer. Gun(s) / Caliber

Travis Haley Glock 17 9mm (also 9mm M&P)
Massad Ayoob Glock 17 9mm
Chris Costa S&W M&P 9mm
Larry Vickers Glock 17/19 9mm
Gabe Suarez Glock 17 9mm
Rob Pincus 9mm (recommends a variety of handguns in this caliber)
Paul Gomez (RIP) Glock 17/19 9mm
James Yeager Glock 19 9mm
Andy Stanford Glock 19 9mm
Kelly McCann Glock 19 9mm
Jason Falla Glock 17 9mm
Michael Janich Glock 17 9mm
Dave Spaulding Glock 19 9mm (sometimes Ruger SR9c)

It seems .40 S&W continues to fall out of favor with more people coming to the realization the 9mm offers higher capacity, lower recoil, lower training costs and solid terminal ballistics when compared to the .40 S&W. During the last gun buying craze every caliber from .22LR to .45 ACP was absent from shelves around the country, however most people reported ample supplies of .40 S&W sitting around. Obviously this is a bonus for the .40 S&W since in times of crisis you might have a better shot at finding ammo, but does this single point outweigh the other benefits of using 9mm? That doesn’t appear to be the case as it seems not only the police and trainers are moving away from the .40 S&W but the general gun buying public is too."

Couldn't of said it better. 9mm is where it's at. You will see 9mm and .45acp make the come back around the nations. .40sw was made due to a lot of political motivation. It's an interesting read, but go look up the FBI shootouts of the 80s and its relation to the creation of the .40SW.
 
I like revolvers better, generally, but I guess I better hurry up and buy a semi-auto pistol in .40S&W to use up the ammo someone gave me, before they go out of production, eh?
 
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