What do you guys think of my new Kel Tec sub 2000 (Glock) 9mm?

[cr5]

Wow... this thread has confirmed the following:

I overpaid ($1100 + shipping) for what amounts to a $400 (if that) piece of junk. Thanks for the honest opinions guys, really.

When I receive the rifle, I now plan to do the following:

-- strip off the POS Kel Tec quad rail and toss it in 'G' ... Thank you Canadian_Zuk
-- toss the foregrip as "it doesn't really help"... Thank you Apollyon
-- toss the recoil reducing piece of foam: "it's a 9mm, what recoil? I'd rather be able to lock the bolt back" ... Thank you cr5

I'll probably just toss the Sightmark QD holosight, as it's probably the worst made cheap-a$$ holosight on the market anyway.

Keep an eye on EE as I strip and sell for big discounts.

Given the fact that it's so damn ugly (90+% of you agree that it is the ugliest POS ever made), I have decided to treat it for the biatch that it is, and abuse it at the range and see if it holds together. Apparenly Kel Tec products are pure junk, so I suspect it will fail quickly. If not, I have a good de-tacticooled "pack gun".

I'm sure your being sarcastic about a few of your comments.

-There is nothing wrong with the quadrail if you like that kind of thing on your rifle just use loktite and keep an eye on it. I would definitely not throw it in the garbage as you could easily sell it on the EE if you actually don't want it.

-Once again with the forward grip, if you like it keep it.

-You can do what I did with the recoil buffer and just cut it down to about a 1/4 inch thick and it will let the bolt lock back and it stops may still offer a small amount of recoil softening. Will smooth it out more than it reduces the minimal recoil.

-The holosight? I don't know about that one but if it holds zero it's good enough.

-The rubber tube is really nice for your cheek, especially in the winter.

Wait till you've been out shooting and see what you like and don't like.

Make it the way YOU want it and don't worry about other people's opinions. I love my sub2000 and whenever I bring it to the range it is always one of the favorites of my friends and it gets shot the most.
I had my PWS AR and my Swiss Arms classic green with it yesterday at the range and my buddy put more rounds through the sub2000 than either of the others. Good for me as 9mm is cheaper than .223

 

[Apollyon]

Whoa now. I haven't even fired my Sub 2000 yet, but there were enough positive reviews on Youtube from guys like NutnFancy that I decided that I really wanted to try it out. I agree that it is expensive for what it is, but it is the only NR rifle that you can fold and tuck away nice and neat. That quad rail is a hot commodity. I've been phoning all over Canada and SOL as all of them have been snapped up and pretty well have to wait for Vault to send us some more. That being said, if anybody is interested in the Red Lion quad rail IRunGuns may be able to import them. Maybe if we get enough guys interested we can split the $250 importation paperwork fee. I'm really looking forward to seeing what this rifle can do, and hopefully at the worst, might have to buy some loctite.

 

[The Kurgan]

Whoa now. I haven't even fired my Sub 2000 yet, but there were enough positive reviews on Youtube from guys like NutnFancy that I decided that I really wanted to try it out. I agree that it is expensive for what it is, but it is the only NR rifle that you can fold and tuck away nice and neat. That quad rail is a hot commodity. I've been phoning all over Canada and SOL as all of them have been snapped up and pretty well have to wait for Vault to send us some more. That being said, if anybody is interested in the Red Lion quad rail IRunGuns may be able to import them. Maybe if we get enough guys interested we can split the $250 importation paperwork fee. I'm really looking forward to seeing what this rifle can do, and hopefully at the worst, might have to buy some loctite.

Definitely interested in the Red Lion quad rail. I have no problem splitting the importation fee. Hell, I'll pay half!

 

[alpining]

Nah, don't listen to them Kurgan, I think you'll be tickled with this piece.

It's a cool little rifle, for sure. There's nothing else on the market even remotely close, design-wise. It's brilliant.

It's a straight blowback action, which makes the recoil "feel" much heavier than you'd expect from a 9mm. I'd like to try the recoil buffer in mine, actually. The bolt is a heavy mother, and when your cheek is welded on the stock tube while you're shooting, the recoil "feels" pretty violent.

 

[alpining]

For a pistol caliber NR, I prefer the just right 9mm carbine, has AR parts and interchangeable ar part upgrades. And price of a JR is $900 and it looks a lot better than the Keltec. One thing that the Keltec I like is the fact it folds in half.

I think the JR Carbine looks gawdawful. I think the Sub2K looks exactly like what a pistol caliber carbine that folds in half should look like.

 

[Teapot]

UGLY?????? I say beautifully utilitarian and so Swedish looking. Looks like a Low Maintenance Rifle save it is pistol caliber chambered.

Nice purchase, OP! Well done and have fun! I have one myself but I am awaiting it's return from the repair facility in BC. I will be having lots of fun with this little karbeen. Cheap to shoot and light to carry.

Yours has lots of aftermarket goodies and are lucky to have them. Enjoy.

 

[jparent]

Pretty. Frickin'. Cool. But i like different.

 

[Canadian_Zuk]

Wow... this thread has confirmed the following:

I overpaid ($1100 + shipping) for what amounts to a $400 (if that) piece of junk. Thanks for the honest opinions guys, really.

When I receive the rifle, I now plan to do the following:

-- strip off the POS Kel Tec quad rail and toss it in 'G' ... Thank you Canadian_Zuk
-- toss the foregrip as "it doesn't really help"... Thank you Apollyon
-- toss the recoil reducing piece of foam: "it's a 9mm, what recoil? I'd rather be able to lock the bolt back" ... Thank you cr5

I'll probably just toss the Sightmark QD holosight, as it's probably the worst made cheap-a$$ holosight on the market anyway.

Keep an eye on EE as I strip and sell for big discounts.

Given the fact that it's so damn ugly (90+% of you agree that it is the ugliest POS ever made), I have decided to treat it for the biatch that it is, and abuse it at the range and see if it holds together. Apparenly Kel Tec products are pure junk, so I suspect it will fail quickly. If not, I have a good de-tacticooled "pack gun".

Settle down, I never said Keltec products were junk. I said the quadrail was junk. I had a sub200 with the factory quad rail, it was junk and I sold it here on the EE and kept the gun in stock form. Keltec makes some very innovative products that fill niche markets other manufacturers stay away from. I loved my sub2000 in factory trim as it was delivered. I brought it camping, hiking, quadding, fishing, everywhere. The only improvement I would make would be to replace the front blade with something slimmer.

I liked it because it folded, was non restricted, took pistol mags and was simple in operation with tool free disassembly.
I hated if for the trigger, front sight, aperture height, length of pull and the hot gasses it sprayed in my eyes each shot.

I could almost live with everything except the ejection. Brass came back towards me with burnt powder residue. My eye protection would be covered with it, I'm also left handed. I sold it and moved on to the next flavour.

The JR was nice to hold. That was it. A pain in the ass to disassemble, small screws that will one day strip. Ambi was nice, gun wasn't reliable. I sold it and moved to the next flavour.

Bought a used Thureon Defence 45. The story ends there. I have quality, reliability, simplicity, ease of service, accuracy. Everything I want in a NR pistol carbine. If only it folded. Lol.

 

[AWMozart]

Whoa now. I haven't even fired my Sub 2000 yet, but there were enough positive reviews on Youtube from guys like NutnFancy that I decided that I really wanted to try it out. I agree that it is expensive for what it is, but it is the only NR rifle that you can fold and tuck away nice and neat. That quad rail is a hot commodity. I've been phoning all over Canada and SOL as all of them have been snapped up and pretty well have to wait for Vault to send us some more. That being said, if anybody is interested in the Red Lion quad rail IRunGuns may be able to import them. Maybe if we get enough guys interested we can split the $250 importation paperwork fee. I'm really looking forward to seeing what this rifle can do, and hopefully at the worst, might have to buy some loctite.

I asked Irunguns about if they would be willing to bring in a Red Lion quad rail and their response was:

"We have had them in stock last week but they are now currently on allocation. Please watch the site and we’ll get them in for you. If you need anything else please let me know….
Best regards,
Jason Lane"

After thinking about it a bit and checking their site I think he got confused between what I asked for and the SU-16 quad rail from Kel-tec which he stocks once in a while and probably gets tons of inquires about. In any case, I was and still am willing to pay the full import fee for a Red Lion Rail if I can convince an importer to do it, so if anyone finds a way to make this happen please count me in.

I did mount a scope on my Sub2k in a very bubba fashion, which let me try it out at various ranges to evaluate different ammo and handloads, but I'd really like something a little more durable than what I have rigged. Yesterday I managed to consistently hit a 2/3 IPSC target reliably at 225 yds. (after discovering a bullet drop of what I figure almost 4') with Winchester whitebox 115gr. using the bubba setup, so the silly little gun can perform better than I expected. Too much fun, I'll be back out doing it again in a few days.

 

[The Kurgan]

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and yes I am super stoked over this purchase -- and all the accessories. As noted in another post/thread, there's always the 'Debbie downers' who pee on other people's parades. I can live with that, and I can certainly live with the sub2k's faults, as there isn't a firearm in existence that's 100% perfect, no matter how much one pays.

This thread is transforming into a good source of information, so irregardless of the drivel, there's plenty of good info. I will certainly be buying a container of red loctite for the barrel clamps (quad rail), and go have some fun.

 

[The Kurgan]

Settle down, I never said Keltec products were junk. I liked it because it folded, was non restricted, took pistol mags and was simple in operation with tool free disassembly.
I hated if for the trigger, front sight, aperture height, length of pull and the hot gasses it sprayed in my eyes each shot.

Never said you did, I just quoted your opinion/experience with the Kel Tec quad rail.

"hot gasses in your eyes?" For real? I hear a consistent disdain for the front sight, and a few complaints about the trigger (people complain about just about any factory trigger), but that's about it.

 

[Dorian Gray]

I don't like the looks of it OP (for some reason i like the way they look stock) but hopefully it functions well and is something you'll enjoy using.

Bought a used Thureon Defence 45. The story ends there. I have quality, reliability, simplicity, ease of service, accuracy. Everything I want in a NR pistol carbine. If only it folded. Lol.

You're a smart one, grasshoppa. I got my'n in 9. I loves it!

 

[Madmardigan]

irregardless

Please tell me your joking.

Anyway, I had a Sub2k for about a year. I did enjoy shooting it, I had about 1000 rounds through it, and it didnt have a single failure of any kind. I ran everything from 115gr to 147gr, and all sorts of hollow points, and it was surprisingly accurate.
Even though I never had issues, I still couldn't trust it. I was worried that eventually it would break, and wanted to sell it before it devolped issues. Kel-Tec isn't excatly known their quality, and they do feel like junky guns. I didn't like the paper thin barrel, plastic sights and how they are adjusted, and the flimsy pistol grip. I did however like how it shouldered. I'm a fairly big guy, but the LOP and how low the sights are never bothered me.
I probably should of never sold it, it seems I had one of the good ones. It's a awesome concept, but I would like to see the quality and the qc stepped up a bit before I get another one. But as long as you like it, that's all that matters. Have fun with it, it's a awesome plinker

 

[Canadian_Zuk]

"hot gasses in your eyes?" For real? .

Yes for real. As I stated, I'm left handed. With the Sub2K's short LOP, it puts the ejection port right in front of my right eye when shouldered on the left. Its a straight blowback gun, brass and gas in yer face. Brass would bounce off my eye protection at times as well. This isn't a knock on the gun, it just didn't fit my left handedness. if the Sub2K had the mag-well forward of the pistol grip it probably wouldn't have been an issue. But it was for me, and the only valid reason for me selling it.


Keep your eyes open in the EE. I have watched several RedLion quadrails get listed and sold over the last 2 years for the sub2K.

 

[cr5]

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and yes I am super stoked over this purchase -- and all the accessories. As noted in another post/thread, there's always the 'Debbie downers' who pee on other people's parades. I can live with that, and I can certainly live with the sub2k's faults, as there isn't a firearm in existence that's 100% perfect, no matter how much one pays.

This thread is transforming into a good source of information, so irregardless of the drivel, there's plenty of good info. I will certainly be buying a container of red loctite for the barrel clamps (quad rail), and go have some fun.

Irregardless isn't a word. It's just regardless

I know you will enjoy your Sub2000. Mine is always a big hit when I pull it out of the backpack I carry it in and 2 seconds later I'm holding a non restricted rifle that takes 10 round mags.
There is always a lot of talk from people saying they are overpriced and that they are a $400 gun at best and I have to disagree, I paid $600 for mine and would do it again, nothing else out there can compete with it and mine has been very reliable. Just because it's mostly plastic doesn't make it cheap, it makes it modern. I'm sure it could be broken at the hinge but you would have to be being an idiot and treating it in a manner that no rifle should be treated in order to break it. This isn't a battle rifle so treat it accordingly and I'm sure we'll all get many years for fun plinking out of them.

Best thing is that even if you end up not liking it you can sell it for what you paid on the EE.

Have fun with your new toy.

 

[The Kurgan]

Actually, I know irregardless isn't a real word but when I was typing it, damn, it just felt right

 

[Lobster_pot]

Wow... this thread has confirmed the following:

I overpaid ($1100 + shipping) for what amounts to a $400 (if that) piece of junk. Thanks for the honest opinions guys, really.

When I receive the rifle, I now plan to do the following:

-- strip off the POS Kel Tec quad rail and toss it in 'G' ... Thank you Canadian_Zuk
-- toss the foregrip as "it doesn't really help"... Thank you Apollyon
-- toss the recoil reducing piece of foam: "it's a 9mm, what recoil? I'd rather be able to lock the bolt back" ... Thank you cr5

I'll probably just toss the Sightmark QD holosight, as it's probably the worst made cheap-a$$ holosight on the market anyway.

Keep an eye on EE as I strip and sell for big discounts.

Given the fact that it's so damn ugly (90+% of you agree that it is the ugliest POS ever made), I have decided to treat it for the biatch that it is, and abuse it at the range and see if it holds together. Apparenly Kel Tec products are pure junk, so I suspect it will fail quickly. If not, I have a good de-tacticooled "pack gun".

Dude it's not that bad. I have the exact same setup and really like it. You can put locktite on screws on quad rail and it won't move. The recoil buffer does make a noticeable difference. Yes they don't have much recoil but its more than you'd expect from a 9mm round. More than my AR lol. You already have it so try it both ways. I also have the sight mark sight and for price it's pretty good. With the QD on it you just pop it off and move it to the side or bottom rail then fold. If you need to unfold in a hurry you still have iron(lol plastic) sights. I like that it folds right up and will fit in a small back pack. It's a fun gun to take in the woods on a 4 wheeler, hiking, camping etc. cheap to shoot. some guys love em some guys hate em. Same as everything. Lol

 

[cr5]

Dude it's not that bad. I have the exact same setup and really like it. You can put locktite on screws on quad rail and it won't move. The recoil buffer does make a noticeable difference. Yes they don't have much recoil but its more than you'd expect from a 9mm round. More than my AR lol. You already have it so try it both ways. I also have the sight mark sight and for price it's pretty good. With the QD on it you just pop it off and move it to the side or bottom rail then fold. If you need to unfold in a hurry you still have iron(lol plastic) sights. I like that it folds right up and will fit in a small back pack. It's a fun gun to take in the woods on a 4 wheeler, hiking, camping etc. cheap to shoot. some guys love em some guys hate em. Same as everything. Lol


Does the sight co-witness or are you above the "iron" sights? I'm hoping the red dot is higher and you can look over the sights.

 

[Lobster_pot]

Does the sight co-witness or are you above the "iron" sights? I'm hoping the red dot is higher and you can look over the sights.

No it co-witnesses I wish it was over top too. Thought about spacer but that would need a QD too. Thought about removing sights and using magpul mbus they co-witness on rail with current sights and optic. but it won't fold all the way. It would still fit in back pack tho.... I'm planning on doing something just been too busy. The stock sights were sighted in perfectly when I bought it so I hate to mess with them but its a lot of stuff in your field of view when using optic. From what I've seen it ruins front sight removing it. I think I will remove the front sight though and if I need one ill just slap a magpul mbus on it

 

[cr5]

No it co-witnesses I wish it was over top too. Thought about spacer but that would need a QD too. Thought about removing sights and using magpul mbus they co-witness on rail with current sights and optic. but it won't fold all the way. It would still fit in back pack tho.... I'm planning on doing something just been too busy. The stock sights were sighted in perfectly when I bought it so I hate to mess with them but its a lot of stuff in your field of view when using optic. From what I've seen it ruins front sight removing it. I think I will remove the front sight though and if I need one ill just slap a magpul mbus on it

Yes, you will ruin it if you remove the front sight. You have to heat it up to melt the glue and it's plastic so... yup, you get the picture

I think I would leave the front sight on and just take the rear out. I sometimes like to use the front sight on my AR with the red dot so you get a more consistent line up and better accuracy. The front sight isn't all that bad, it's the rear that is a pos in my opinion. Maybe one of these years KelTec or one of these other companies will come out with a replacement rear sight.