Frustrating maintaining accurate distance off lands

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canoetrpr

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I don't have micrometer dies; wish I did not. I'm using the regular Redding ones.

I was loading for my .223 Rem Cooper today. Hornady V-Max 55gr, Varget 24.8 gr. I did some load development a few months ago and varied the powder weight with a constant 0.010' off the lands and found 24.8 worked very well.

Today I decided to try 0.005 - 0.025", in 0.005" increments and boy I found it hard to do. Here's what I ran into:

I am using a bullet comparator with an insert for .223 so my distances are off the ojive not the tip.

1. Often hard to get the exact OAL even when I'm not adjusting the seating depth on the die one bullet to the next. Variation of +/- .002 is pretty standard. Sometimes much more.
2. It's an exercise in guess work how much the bullet seating depth screw needs to turn to go from .005 to .010 and so on. I'm guessing this is where a micrometer bullet seater will shine (now why didn't I get one?).

I'm not any kind of serious bench-rest shooter. I guess there is no NEED for me to do this but I'm an anal sort of guy and I like to play to see where I am going to find that most accurate load even for my hunting rifles. I have al load with Nosler Accubonds for my Winchester 70 in 30-06 all worked up and it is just under 1 MOA but I want to try to get it to be the best possible.

I found that my best bet was to keep the lock ring on the bullet seater screw just loose so that I had the ability to adjust from round to round. I measured every round for OAL and any I found that were not within a couple thou inches I kept for fouling shots and plinking.

I'd love it if others could share how they get consistency in OAL. Anyone know if Redding sells the micrometer assembly to go on top of the dies I already have or should I just sell some of the dies and get the micrometer ones (Forester or Redding)?
 
I was thinking of getting a micrometer die set.

just earlier today I was testing a load with seating depth, going back .010 thou at a time, and my standard hornady $30 set seating die kept each bullet seated bang on every time, and I was able to adjust down by as little as .002 thou at a time.

I just kept the locking ring on the die body locked and moved the depth screw ever so slightly.
 
Don't count on the 55 Vmaxs to be uniform at the ogive as well. They are not a match bullet so there will be variation from lot to lot and from bullet to bullet within a give lot. They are run off of many different type of dies in several machine and cranked out to one big bin with one lot number so I wouldn't worry to much about variation.

However with a micro adjustment die it would be quick to adjust up or down, however it would drive you nuts after a while trying to chase a certain OAL with the Vmaxes.
 
308BAR said:
Don't count on the 55 Vmaxs to be uniform at the ogive as well. They are not a match bullet so there will be variation from lot to lot and from bullet to bullet within a give lot. They are run off of many different type of dies in several machine and cranked out to one big bin with one lot number so I wouldn't worry to much about variation.

However with a micro adjustment die it would be quick to adjust up or down, however it would drive you nuts after a while trying to chase a certain OAL with the Vmaxes.
Click to expand...

Well this is good information. I expected that these bullets would all be uniform since I was measuring at the ogive. I guess they are *more* uniform at the ogive than at the tip but not as uniform as a match bullet.

It will be fun to see how differently they shoot.

Of course the reality is that at .010 from the lands, this load put 4 out of 5 bullets in a single hole from my Cooper 21 Varmint so I didn't NEED to muck around with distance from the lands. I wanted to do it just for educational purposes to see how distance from the lands affects the groups for a given load.

More interested in how distance from the lands impacts the best 30-06 load I have for my Winchester 70 with 168gr Nosler Accubonds as just under MOA was the best it could do . Not complaining ... just learning how much I can push the accuracy (doubt the deer will tell the difference between 0.5 and 1 MOA).
 
Alpheus said:
Just buy a new die! :p

If I were you, I'd pick one with the micrometer with the divisions around it. I find trying to adjust the Forster with just the slitted bolt on the top aggravating.

And yes, Redding does sell replaceable seating stems for their regular seating dies, NOT the competition ones. Here: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/02/redding-offers-new-micrometer-seating-stems-for-standard-dies/
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Thanks so much! Brownell's carries them unfortunately I can't tell which are the correct non VLD ones for the FL dies I have. Often aggravating with Brownells as it does not say right there which calibre or die each micrometer head is for. Will go get the numbers tomorrow from the dies and figure it out. Certainly worth having two of those micrometer heads around; one for large and one for small calibres; if that is all it takes.
 
canoetrpr said:
I wanted to do it just for educational purposes to see how distance from the lands affects the groups for a given load.
Click to expand...

If you want to do a comparison on accuracy due to OAL I would just load 100 rounds using the same seating die setting. Take your OAL tool and calipers to the range, set up several targets and measure the OAL before your fire, at the same time keeping a record which target is which OAL. This beats trying to chase the certain OAL on your die constantly PITA if I'm loading in bulk. The V-maxes are very jump tolerant in my experience and are good to a minute of gopher regardless of jump. Have fun and it's always rewarding when your own handy work doesn't blow up and is able to push tacks.
 
Thanks for the post canoe, some really good advice here, I too was having the same issue as I have only been using the comparator set for about a year now. I started measuring many bullets (just the projectiles) and noticed a fair variation in base to ogive lengths in many types. They seemed to shoot very well regardless, but I am also fairly precise and anal when it comes to this sort of thing.
 
canoetrpr said:
Thanks so much! Brownell's carries them unfortunately I can't tell which are the correct non VLD ones for the FL dies I have. Often aggravating with Brownells as it does not say right there which calibre or die each micrometer head is for. Will go get the numbers tomorrow from the dies and figure it out. Certainly worth having two of those micrometer heads around; one for large and one for small calibres; if that is all it takes.
Click to expand...

Sinclair Intl also sells them and here: http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/measuring-tools/micrometers/redding-standard-bullet-seating-micrometers-prod44706.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=REDDING, if you click Q&A under the standard bullet #3, they say that #23, Redding part number #09083 is for non-VLD .223
Grouse River Outfitters sells the stems.
 
i also find that if your not consistent with the downward force on the press bar inconsistency will occur
for example if you slowly allow the bar to fall in you hand on one shell and let it drop harder on the 2nd shell the 2nd shell/bullet
will be seated deeper in the case ,but this will vary depending on neck tension
 
The Redding seating die uses a thread pitch of 20 TPI (threads per inch), from that you can adjust your seating depth as follows:

90 degrees - .012"
180 degrees - .025"
270 degrees - .037"
180 degrees - .050".

While its not quite as simple to use as a micrometer, this at least gives you a measurement you can use.
 
Boomer said:
The Redding seating die uses a thread pitch of 20 TPI (threads per inch), from that you can adjust your seating depth as follows:

90 degrees - .012"
180 degrees - .025"
270 degrees - .037"
180 degrees - .050".

While its not quite as simple to use as a micrometer, this at least gives you a measurement you can use.
Click to expand...

Hmm, think I'll just print this out. "Thanx Booner".
 
This is a useful tool. The hole is bore diameter, so the ring sits on the bullet ogive. You can measure from case base to top of the ring for measurements to compare OAL to a standard.

OALHAT.jpg
 
Boomer said:
The Redding seating die uses a thread pitch of 20 TPI (threads per inch), from that you can adjust your seating depth as follows:

90 degrees - .012"
180 degrees - .025"
270 degrees - .037"
180 degrees - .050".

While its not quite as simple to use as a micrometer, this at least gives you a measurement you can use.
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
You might try this: the fellow that taught me to reload told me when seating, to run the round up into the seating die, back down, spin the round 180 degrees in the shell holder, then back up into the die.

I think this is more for concentricity, but might help in slight OAL variations as well. A press with a positive stop on the arms is easier to use than a cam-over type for consistency IMO also.
 
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