Can the Hi-Power still hold its own against more "modern" combat/duty pistols?
- Thread starter mr00jimbo
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Is the BHP a nice handgun? Yes.
Can it hold its own against a modern polymer handgun? Well, sure, if you ignore the smaller magazine capacity, heavier weight, and added complexity of a single action trigger with external safety.
It might get the job done but I think it's hard to make the case that it's better by any quantifiable measure.
Is that why the large majority of special forces units (and probably every non-American special forces unit) have used handguns without external safeties for basically the past 20-30 years?
All things being equal, less time or effort spent learning to work around an external safety (or double action first shot) means more time and effort practicing actual shooting.
Can it hold its own against a modern polymer handgun? Well, sure, if you ignore the smaller magazine capacity, heavier weight, and added complexity of a single action trigger with external safety.
It might get the job done but I think it's hard to make the case that it's better by any quantifiable measure.
Is that why the large majority of special forces units (and probably every non-American special forces unit) have used handguns without external safeties for basically the past 20-30 years?
All things being equal, less time or effort spent learning to work around an external safety (or double action first shot) means more time and effort practicing actual shooting.
I doubt their choices have anything to do with "fine motor skills" issues and more to do with reliability, cost, and contract considerations. Maybe the AR should do away with the safety and go Glock, that way the guys get more trigger time practicing instead of manipulating the safety? Learning your firearm requires effort, no getting around it, be it external safety, double action trigger, mag release, reloading, it's all part of shooting. The "fine motor skills" issue is a non issue if the propper training is done.
The loss of fine motor skills is real get over it. The mistake many make is in the belief that the loss is absolute or complete loss of fine motor skill. Much like the difficulty one has when their hands are cold is what occurs with the loss of fine motor control due to stress. In addition to the loss of fms there is also the mental aspect of stress which can lead to a complete failure to even attempt to release a slide/magazine/safety. The fewer movements required to go from safe/slung/holstered to rounds out is the best possible solution. Manual safeties impede that. Handguns do not need manual/positive safeties as they should be holstered. Rifles are slung which exposes the trigger and trigger guard, hence the need for and use of a manual safety. The safety/selector on the AR fow is intuitive and readily accessible. Ones primary/fire control hand should be in constant contact if a threat is expected. The drawstroke for your handgun can lead to poor hand placement which can result in no draw or inaccessibility to a manual safety.
Tdc
Anyone who thinks NDs in-theatre are a non-issue has either never been around the CF much, or hasn't been paying attention. The Canadian CO at KAF, Brig-Gen Ménard, was ultimately relieved of command, court martialled, and busted out of the CF, in large part for a ND in the presence of the CDS during a base tour. Having an affair with his aide didn't help either.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...f-in-Afghanistan-fired-rifle-in-air-base.html
But clearly, it's not a problem...
There have been other incidents of NDs, some causing death, in afghanistan and it's taken VERY seriously.
Do I think that the issue of NDs with Glocks can be overcome? Yes. Will they get a heavy trigger on the UK version? I have no idea.
My point in my earlier post is that the BHP is still capable (that;s what the OP asked) and can be used more or less safely with training and practise. Some of the guys I talked to don't trust the ability to disengage the safety under stress. Evidently they are different guys than Kevin rolled with. Meh.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...f-in-Afghanistan-fired-rifle-in-air-base.html
But clearly, it's not a problem...
There have been other incidents of NDs, some causing death, in afghanistan and it's taken VERY seriously.
Do I think that the issue of NDs with Glocks can be overcome? Yes. Will they get a heavy trigger on the UK version? I have no idea.
My point in my earlier post is that the BHP is still capable (that;s what the OP asked) and can be used more or less safely with training and practise. Some of the guys I talked to don't trust the ability to disengage the safety under stress. Evidently they are different guys than Kevin rolled with. Meh.
To answer the original posters question, yes it can for what the regular user needs it to do. Those that rely on it for more than a secondary arm have had it replaced already. It does need to be replaced as parts are getting low, but for the majority of those issued with it, it is still a good platform.
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That's why fighters all have head up displays and many automated systems right? That has nothing to do with reduced workload at all. Training is great and it goes a long way. However a somplified manual of arms by design can't be forgotten or f**ked up like manual safeties and other unnecessary controls.
Tdc
Eta: a lot of what you see in the cockpit doesn't get accessed during normal flight or when under stress.
Think of an Apache pilot, coordinating the cyclic, collective, throttle, pedals all while taking in outside conditions, threats, and inside info. about the helicopter. Granted he's far better trained than the average foot soldier, but that's exactly why they did away with the safety on the Glock, it's a pistol designed to train many in as short a period of time with as few accidents possible. It in of itself isn't superior in design, it's superior in it's design for the task it's intended to perform. The safety wasn't eliminated because of fine motor skills, it was eliminated to prevent accidents by operators forgetting to thumb the safety on and off. It's a system dummed down to deal with the lowest common denominator.
"...The thought of destroying..." What do you think will happen to the thousands of BNIB Inglis BHP's the CF owns? That is the pistols, et al, they've not already destroyed.
"...Glock has an advantage of..." Being much lighter in weight. Ever ounce saved is a blessing for the PBI.
"...Glock has an advantage of..." Being much lighter in weight. Ever ounce saved is a blessing for the PBI.
The second-last time I was at Valcartier, ther ewere less than half the war stocks there once was. Maybe 5 years ago. When I was there last year, there were virtually no unissued guns left. When Hillier was CDS, he authorized war reserve release to address complaints about worn-out rattle-trap guns and most of those BNIB guns went overseas with troops during normal rotations. Reliability immediately improved as I understand things.
Most of those guns are still low mileage, but there aren't thousands of BNIB hi-Powers in inventory any longer.
If you have two machines that perform the same function, and one is more simple to operate than the other, all other things being equal the more simple machine is the better of the two. This is a fairly basic concept that stands even without the advantages in capacity/weight that Glocks and similar handguns enjoy.
Removing things like manual safeties where they are not needed is a quality of life improvement for the operator, as they can spend time and effort on improving fundamental skills (bullets on target) that would otherwise be required for practicing extraneous functions like a manual safety on a backup firearm.
Similarly, sequential gearboxes make it easier for idiots to drive fast, sure, but they also give real race car drivers better return on time invested in training by removing an unnecessary step in driving a car around a track.
You aren't dumbing the operation down to the lowest common denominator, you are streamlining it in a way that benefits shooters at literally all levels.
