Service Rifle Calgary
- Thread starter robpad
- Start date
Mistakes were made. That's funny. Any Kool aid stand is better run. A few of us tried and that's all i'm going to say. As long as a satisfactory explanation is not provided and people not held accountable there will be no CSRA in APRA.
Except where the Fullbore group try to impose their rules on other APRA members.
- when they didn't like the fact we distributed the combination to the lock of the range with paid membership dues, they unilaterally (and illegally) changed the lock with very little notice (and then conveniently went on vacation for the remainder of the year) leaving many members without access to the range.
- when they tried blaming CSRA members for shooting painted rocks on the range, it was pointed out that it was their own members who lacked access to their target shed so they could set up targets in the frames who were resorting to shooting other stuff to get come-ups.
When the CSRA put up a shed for practice targets so these guys would refrain from shooting rocks, I had an argument with both the President and VP of Fullbore where they explained they didn't care about those individuals, as all the ones that mattered in their club had access to their shed, and the others can just quit for all they cared.
- the reality is it has nothing to do with being a serious competitor - it has everything to do with being a serious competitor in THEIR SPORT on THEIR RANGE.
Give me a break.
The APRA itself has had it's not-for-profit designation slip - this is a minor matter of some paperwork and a $50 admin. Fee to the province to have it reinstated. The suggestion it is one hurdle the CSRA could not have overcome is pure BS.
What obligations?
They wanted payment for APRA membership dues not forwarded to the APRA treasurer.
OK, APRA Treasurer, what payment do you want us to make? This is a question asked repeatedly by us. We'll pay whatever it is you see fit and have accounted for with the membership books. None of that was ever brought forward.
They wanted new people in charge of the discipline with APRA oversight - fine. Define what more you want and we'll do it. Nothing was ever brought forward by the review committee - BECAUSE THERE WAS NEVER INTENTION ON BEHALF OF THE APRA OF FIXING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
This statement is also largely BS. If you had or have been involved with the APRA for any length of time you would know that the Fullbore group have spent many years trying to get rid of the CSRA - since before John Howard's passing.
I'd love a return to NSCC type SR and would support you 100%, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell a dime of my money is going to the (current version of) APRA.
The APRA in it's current form is now so much more than just Fullbore. There is representation from IPSC, IDPA, small bore, Biathalon, Swiss club Tell, Rosebud (which really is a club on their own representing benchrest and silhouette), and a Swiss crossbow club. - The APRA is not representative of a PRA as most other provinces know them. The APRA stopped being a PRA when they merged with Rosebud shooting range in. The '80s.
In my opinion, the DCRA should be stripping the APRA's affiliation as a PRA and it should be started fresh (yeah, good luck with that).
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Jay, I've seen you shoot. Just get used to me handing you your ass.
Okay, ball busting aside, it would be really great if you and MS can get something going in Alberta. REALLY great. Like I said at NSCC, I want to hear about it and talk about it on the podcast to do what we can to assist in promoting it once you are at that stage. You guys have skype right? You are willing to be interviewed right?
Up till now we've made a point on the show to really stay away from the whole APRA-CSRA debacle because there is so much conflicting information, BS, and general negativity regarding the whole situation. Now that there is a chance for a light at the end of the tunnel we want to hear and talk about Service Rifle and other Service Conditions disciplines moving forward in Alberta.
Great! I like your guys' program, and hopefully we can chat about things like "w00t! winter match. Bring big boy boots, the snow is nuts deep."
Everything, CSRA was a joke and they just don't accept responsibility for the total failure of their club. They seem to think that one of their members can reinstate the group. That won't ever happen until guilty are held responsible but for some strange reason they just don't get it.
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have to ask, what is your role with the APRA?
Guilty of what? Accountable how? Why does this seem to be about vengeance? Does the ARPA need to have a linching of the previous head of the CSRA? Tar and feathering perhaps?
What is the deal? The APRA is "supposed" to be about promotion of Shooting Sports yet for some reason Service Rifle has been singled out for punishment?
I gotta say, that if Seafury is correct and there is no way that the APRA are going to allow Service Rifle to be conducted under their umbrella of shooting sports, go around them. Get rolling with your own club and forget about the APRA altogether.
I really don't see the need to be involved with the APRA if you can get a range facility and personnel willing/able to organize it. Call it the Alberta Service Conditions Association or Service Conditions Alberta or something and just get going.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
Just a quick note, to both the moderators and to the participants, to say that I am glad that this thread has not been shut down. I hope it will be allowed to continue.
Passions obviously run pretty strongly on this. Postings here have been "vigourous" to be sure but I haven't seen any that are completely out of line and beyond the pale. Either people have done a good job of keeping things civil-enough, or maybe there have been such posts and they've been deleted by the moderators?
None of what's going on here affects me personally and directly, I live on the other side of the country, but I do have a very strong interest in and passion for the health and vitality of fullbore shooting and Service Conditions shooting everywhere in Canada. I happen to know quite well several of the people on one of the sides in this issue and have a great deal of respect for them, and I don't know anybody at all on the other side. I learned some time ago that "there are two sides to every story" and I am grateful here to be able to hear from several sources on each "side" of these happenings.
I know that these posts are perhaps stretching (a bit) the topic, but I think it is genuinely useful to the shooting community that these postings continue to be made out in the open here and I hope that CGN continues to tolerate this thread...
Passions obviously run pretty strongly on this. Postings here have been "vigourous" to be sure but I haven't seen any that are completely out of line and beyond the pale. Either people have done a good job of keeping things civil-enough, or maybe there have been such posts and they've been deleted by the moderators?
None of what's going on here affects me personally and directly, I live on the other side of the country, but I do have a very strong interest in and passion for the health and vitality of fullbore shooting and Service Conditions shooting everywhere in Canada. I happen to know quite well several of the people on one of the sides in this issue and have a great deal of respect for them, and I don't know anybody at all on the other side. I learned some time ago that "there are two sides to every story" and I am grateful here to be able to hear from several sources on each "side" of these happenings.
I know that these posts are perhaps stretching (a bit) the topic, but I think it is genuinely useful to the shooting community that these postings continue to be made out in the open here and I hope that CGN continues to tolerate this thread...
Service Rifle has played too important of a role in shaping many of our shooting sports and even our firearm laws to allow it to falter in province that it is run in. The thread has been kept open because it is in the best interest of the shooting community as a whole that SR gets up and running again in Alberta.
This is the sort of crap that we were dealing with but the APRA didn't express it this openly at the time, they just lied to us and kept making up new things that they needed from us. Every time we did what they asked they added another requirement or claimed that we didn't do what they asked. It was just one long jerking around session with them and it became obvious that they would not allow service rifle no matter what we did or offered to do. They didn’t even want the money that was owed when it was offered. They just wanted to be rid of service rifle and this was their chance to do it. Funny that they are hell bent on holding someone responsible for this but not for the financial irregularities within the main body of the APRA. When I asked about that on the APRA website my account was deleted without any explination and I was blocked from setting up a new account even though I am an APRA memeber.
This is a great perspective to maintain. The two are so similar in facility use, and heritage and each of which has such small numbers to attempt exist without the other is not feasible in anything but the immediate term.
Hopefully you can further that perspective.
It's too late for the APRA, even if the organization gets a "high colonic", the anti SR is too entrenched and has been going on too long I believe. Best just to set up local events/matches based on the DCRA matches so those from Alberta can get prepped for the Nationals.
Hopefully, if things get off the ground we can have a couple of good central locations to do this in...
I would tend to disagree with this statement.
Remember 'Fullbore' started as Service Rifle shooting. The Fullbore changes made in the past (1960s?) splintering into dedicated target rifles was the start, and F-Class is just a further, continued, divergence in the principles both the DCRA and the PRAs were founded on in the first place.
While Fullbore continues to slide in popularity and numbers as their core group of shooters age and eventually die off, it does not appear any of the shooters in the sport are at all concerned or work toward a legacy plan of continuation of that sport.
F-class is gaining slowly in popularity as a replacement probably in part to the relatively little shooter skill that is required to compete (aside from wind reading I suppose, but most try to counter that with technology).
While a proper gallery range offers quite a challenge for most civilian ranges (even Homestead has a ways to go to making it right), I think some of the newer matches, if embraced (like CQB, and a two gun type match with SR and Service Pistol) would be easily done on most outdoor ranges in Canada.
The only thing holding Service Conditions from growing in my view is the fact it is held under the yoke of the Fullbore crew that damn well know their sport is dying.
I have no role within the APRA beyond being a member. My preference would be to have Service Rifle reinstated and to once again put my membership money there. I'm a realist however and although the former CSRA president stated he accepts full responsibility for the failure of the club I don't see him doing anything about it. Now you guys can believe anything you want but the simple truth is there is a large amount of money missing. No satisfactory explanation has been given for this. The excuses I've heard are laughable. The APRA has issued set of requirements to be reinstated that for the most part are reasonable. A full complete membership list can't be provided to the APRA. Asking the APRA to tell us what they think membership was is ridiculous. For whatever reason the membership seems to want to forget the role the former exec or members of it played in the failure of CSRA, the "mismanagement" of funds and point their fingers at the parent organization. To me this makes no sense at all. You guys also minimize the seriousness of the dues not being paid. In reality we had no insurance.
Why isn't membership demanding that a full accounting of club funds be made?
This is my final post on this. Why don't you guys think about who really killed SR in the APRA?
We did and do accept responsibility - why else would we come to the table and offer to pay back the funds the APRA thought were taken?
Why would the APRA not accept that offer if there was not another motive other than the primary one to remove SR from Homestead?
How do you want 'accountability'?
(Last I checked, in Canada were are innocent until proven guilty - but don't let that small detail get in the way of your sense of 'Justice'.)
Seriously??? That's pretty condescending - there is a whole bunch more skill - and participation - going into F-Class than you understand it to be. There were over 400 competitors at the F-Class World Championship in August, roughly equal between F-TR and F-O.
