Best non restricted black rifle for 3 gun

DoubleA said:
These days it's a small shop that does everything on CNC, mostly imported from their German parent-company. I doubt they have the background to make a new, military-grade rifle, and the delays and trouble with the SAPR are evidence of this.
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Small shop or not, the quality and fit and finish of those Swiss-made rifles is still absolutely top notch and some of the best in the industry. And what's wrong with CNC? Everyone uses CNC these days, not just small shops. CNC allows for tighter tolerances and more consistent machining. I can't see how that could possibly be a negative.

Now with respect to Chilean-made 540's...they are not here yet, so their quality is unknown. If the Chileans can match the quality of the Swiss, I will be impressed, though I think it's rather unlikely. The pictures that I've seen on the Internet appear to show somewhat cruder fit and finish compared to Swiss Arms.
 
Bracketman said:
Link?
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http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-fs2000/5058-i-m-owner-blown-up-fs2000-out-battery.html

this is the guy who had his fs2000 KB. he said it was caused by bad ammo, not really an issue if you know you're using good ammo. and he wasn't hurt, just a little dazed but the guy said when he called bob at FN, he said that a guy had been seriously hurt when his fs2000 blew up. it will probably never happen but it makes me feel uneasy. its all in the link.
 
benelli mr1 would be awesome for 3gun if you could make large mag drop and few changes... super accurate and low recoil, but ar15 is the best...
 
If LAR and/Beowulf mags are permitted in the three gun you attend, you will have a hell of a time being competive if you're not using a rifle that can use them.

I've used my XCR for 3 gun. It's not as fast as my ARs, but it's every bit as reliable.
 
Stevo said:
If LAR and/Beowulf mags are permitted in the three gun you attend, you will have a hell of a time being competive if you're not using a rifle that can use them.

I've used my XCR for 3 gun. It's not as fast as my ARs, but it's every bit as reliable.
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with the xcr having better ergos then an ar how is the ar faster? ive never shot an xcr ive just always thought it would be quicker with the charging handle and bolt release location.
 
The ergos on the XCR are better but an 18.5" heavy barrel doesn't swing nearly as fast as a 14.5" AR. The XCR ergos only make a difference on reloads or if the rifle starts empty and locked open.

Add in the facts that my XCR is in 7.62x39 and it's brake isn't that good and you end up with slower than an AR. YMMV.
 
Stevo said:
If LAR and/Beowulf mags are permitted in the three gun you attend, you will have a hell of a time being competive if you're not using a rifle that can use them.

I've used my XCR for 3 gun. It's not as fast as my ARs, but it's every bit as reliable.
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different round capacity for different guns makes for a one sided competition, why even bother competing at that point?
 
Brian46 said:
different round capacity for different guns makes for a one sided competition, why even bother competing at that point?
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All sports have gear combos that work best. If you want to place well, you need the right kit. If you want to have fun and don't care about how you place, gear doesn't matter.
 
Stevo said:
All sports have gear combos that work best. If you want to place well, you need the right kit. If you want to have fun and don't care about how you place, gear doesn't matter.
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that is one thing but allowing a rifle of one make more rounds than another in the same caliber is not a level playing field.
 
I shoot a CZ SP-01 Shadow for IPSC, but 3 gun matches I use my Glock 22 and my .40 JR Carbine. Same rounds, same mags, I shoot it as well as many shoot their AR's and I have 10 round mags too. Something to think about.
 
Brian46 said:
then buy an older used rifle as they have been imported here for many years......You must believe the current production Chilean licensed sigs are manufactured differently than current swiss arms licensed sigs and to a higher standard to post the above which I find highly unlikely.
It is all speculation untill people compare them side by side and round for round.
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As someone with a significant amount of time examining and shooting the FAMAE 54x rifles I can say with some reliability they are not SAN quality in any respect. Rough finish (welds and paint), questionable metal quality in some subcomponents (i.e. Soft firing pins) and much less refinement overall. Let's not forget, the 540 was originally designed for the Swiss military and was rejected for numerous reasons. That rejection led to the complete redesign and the 550. The 54x is an abandoned rifle by the company that designed it...
 
unstableryan said:
I shoot a CZ SP-01 Shadow for IPSC, but 3 gun matches I use my Glock 22 and my .40 JR Carbine. Same rounds, same mags, I shoot it as well as many shoot their AR's and I have 10 round mags too. Something to think about.
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what do you do when the 3 gun match doesn't allow pistol carbines?
 
Brian46 said:
what do you do when the 3 gun match doesn't allow pistol carbines?
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is this common? i want to do a 3 gun match next year... would love to run the roni in it.

anyone know what the story is with the bushmaster ACR in canada? can you get them here?
 
Brian46 said:
that is one thing but allowing a rifle of one make more rounds than another in the same caliber is not a level playing field.
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Life isn't a level playin field. Our mag restrictions are bad enough without forcing those who can use 10+ down to a lower capacity. Would you limit all pistol shooters to 8 because someone is using a .45 or all shotguns to 5 because there's a 12.5" 870 at the match?

Even if you made all rifles use 5 rounds, the field still would not be level. The AR shooters would still come out on top.
 
Stevo said:
Life isn't a level playin field. Our mag restrictions are bad enough without forcing those who can use 10+ down to a lower capacity. Would you limit all pistol shooters to 8 because someone is using a .45 or all shotguns to 5 because there's a 12.5" 870 at the match?

Even if you made all rifles use 5 rounds, the field still would not be level. The AR shooters would still come out on top.
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I don't know about you, but I shoot matches to see different people using different kit to it's best ability, not everyone showing up with the exact same stuff as everyone else.

If the AR always wins/comes out on top, why doesn't every army use them? and why do they not win at every match?
 
Brian46 said:
If the AR always wins/comes out on top, why doesn't every army use them? and why do they not win at every match?
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Because the military isn't shooting three gun...
Well actually some have teams, but I digress.

For our purposes, ar whips up on everything else for three gun. You can do well with a pistol caliber carbine, but if there are any longer (200+ yard) targets, you're screwed.
Closest you're going to get in a non restricted with all things considered is a tavor.
 
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