Is 300 WSM, Win Mag, RUM, RSUM overkill for your hunting needs?
- Thread starter Mudduck
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30-06 and a 270 wsm. Both are ample for game in Ontario. If you wanna have some fun - try some different types of bullets and weights of bullet. I prefer a smaller caliber for deer but step up on the moose. Something else to consider is a real good scope for either (or both)of the rifles that you already own- is a great addition to a hunting rig.
Adrian J Hare
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- NewLowell On. Can.
The question to start doesn't make sense to me. If you have a 270wsm then it will do everything the 300wsm will without the shoulder pounding. Bullet types are the difference in WSM ammo....
^ this, is why I'll be trading in my T3 300WSM for either a T3 .270 or 6.5 Swede. For whatever reason Tikkas' synthetic stocks soak up less recoil than other makes in that caliber. After ten shots at the bench you might as well hit hit me with Thors' Hammer and be done with it.
Adrian J Hare
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NewLowell On. Can.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Southern Yukon
Sounds like you are already covered for deer and moose. Both of your cartridges will kill this game effectively to a good 500 yards if you can make the shot.
Personally I would definitely go larger caliber (.35, 9.3, .375) rather than faster, if I wanted a new hunting rifle for big game.
My experience is that all you really gain with more velocity is better trajectory, which is not nothing, but is not that major if you practice with your rifle. I've seen moose and the like hit with all sorts of 30 cal bullets shot out of all sorts of cartridges, and seems like as long as your shot placement is good, whether your impact velocity is 1800 fps or 3200 fps really doesn't matter much at all. The only exception to this is if you are a dedicated double front shoulder shooter using tough bullets, in which case you can't really have too much horsepower.
Get yourself a nice 9.3x62 and load it with some 286's to 2400+ fps and you'll never be wanting for that flashy 300 Weatherby you were wise to pass on.
- Location
- Winnipeg,Man.
a 30-06 or .270 will put down any big game animal that you may hunt. Many, many were taken with a 30-30 or .303 rifle. Long before the need for the Magnums that some people think is needed to outshoot thier abilities. I have never had the need to find anything more than a .270 or 30-06. For years i only used the 1907 30-30 Winny rifle i have. Never risked a shot over 100 yards and took my animal every year.
Northman999............The 300 Wby which you say the OP is wise to pass on, is along with 300 WM and 300 RUM one of the most versatile all around cartridges ever designed. They have no limitations, except the shooter, in NA hunting and do everything as well or better than the 308-270-30-06, group of cartridges. A man buying a 300 Mag is not over gunned or an overkill fanatic. I understand that with all the new optics today trajectoy isn't as critical as it once was and flat shooting doesn't have as great an edge on the 308 or '06, HOWEVER, it does still have a large margin in "time of flight" which is where wind effect, the possibility of an animal to move etc, comes into play. This can only be minimized by increased velocity. The added bullet weight and higher velocities also increases ballistic coefficient, which in turn reduces effects of wind, flattens trajectoies, and increases energy on target.
I would advocate anyone who wants one to certainly go and buy a 300 Mag, there is no down side and the recoil is not ridiculous, there are guys on here recommending 338s all the time as well as 9.3s and 35 Whelens, all of which are in the same or greater recoil family and do nothing the 300 mags won't do as well with a 200 AB or a 200 Part.
I fell in love with my 300s a long time ago before range finders were in every mans pocket, and adjustable scopes were only just coming on to the sillhouette range. They made it possible, no actually easy to take any animal out to 450+ mtrs with one sight in range and one cross hair in my scope, and this is still valid today. I can guarantee that set up with my 300 Wby beside another shooter with the same experience and a 308 with a range finder and an adjustable scope I can hit a target at 500 mtrs twice before he gets his gear all tuned in and fires his first shot, and then pull down to 200 mtrs and make 2 more hits before he readjusts his scope again. I don't have to think about where I had my scope set last, was I shooting 500 mtrs? or was it 400 mtrs? or was it 100 mtrs? My scope settings NEVER change once Ive sighted my rifle in and I KNOW where to hold out to 500 mtrs or so. I do not make it a habit of shooting at game beyond this range but I have and can make these hits as well, as long as I know the range (rangefinder), because I know my rifle and cartridge, and I know when it gets to 6 or 700 mtrs that if I have done my job, my chosen bullet, from my chosen cartridge (300 Wby) will not pinhole and let me down due to velocities below expansion thresholds.
Okay, we all know the advantages of the big 30s at extended ranges, my question would then be, what disadvantages does a 300 mag display at any range on any size of game. I have never found one, it kills cleanly and efficiently at 20 mtrs, 50 mtrs, 100 mtrs, 500 mtrs and beyond............30 lb animals, 100 lb animals, 1000 lb animals, 3000 lb animals........USING THE CORRECT BULLET !!!
An analogy..............do all you 30-30, 308, 30-06 shooters drive Smart cars (you know the ones, the little tiny ones from Mercedes), because that`s all you really NEED, they will do the speed limit and get enough groceries for a week and get around good enough........OR, do you drive a 4 wd pick up because you want your vehicle to do more for you, it burns twice the fuel, the tires cost 4 times as much to replace and they cost 3 times more to buy.........but dammit I want a truck, oh ya and let`s not forget that rougher ride. The 300 mags are the 4 wd pick ups of the rifle cartridge world, they do everything you want them to and don`t have any shortcomings, but they cost a little more to shoot and have a little rougher ride. The reality is the 300 mag family of cartridges fulfills every need without compromise from the 223/22-250 class of cartridge right through the .375 family.
I am really getting tired of people maligning one of the best family of cartridges to ever be developed since the turn of the last century !!!
I would advocate anyone who wants one to certainly go and buy a 300 Mag, there is no down side and the recoil is not ridiculous, there are guys on here recommending 338s all the time as well as 9.3s and 35 Whelens, all of which are in the same or greater recoil family and do nothing the 300 mags won't do as well with a 200 AB or a 200 Part.
I fell in love with my 300s a long time ago before range finders were in every mans pocket, and adjustable scopes were only just coming on to the sillhouette range. They made it possible, no actually easy to take any animal out to 450+ mtrs with one sight in range and one cross hair in my scope, and this is still valid today. I can guarantee that set up with my 300 Wby beside another shooter with the same experience and a 308 with a range finder and an adjustable scope I can hit a target at 500 mtrs twice before he gets his gear all tuned in and fires his first shot, and then pull down to 200 mtrs and make 2 more hits before he readjusts his scope again. I don't have to think about where I had my scope set last, was I shooting 500 mtrs? or was it 400 mtrs? or was it 100 mtrs? My scope settings NEVER change once Ive sighted my rifle in and I KNOW where to hold out to 500 mtrs or so. I do not make it a habit of shooting at game beyond this range but I have and can make these hits as well, as long as I know the range (rangefinder), because I know my rifle and cartridge, and I know when it gets to 6 or 700 mtrs that if I have done my job, my chosen bullet, from my chosen cartridge (300 Wby) will not pinhole and let me down due to velocities below expansion thresholds.
Okay, we all know the advantages of the big 30s at extended ranges, my question would then be, what disadvantages does a 300 mag display at any range on any size of game. I have never found one, it kills cleanly and efficiently at 20 mtrs, 50 mtrs, 100 mtrs, 500 mtrs and beyond............30 lb animals, 100 lb animals, 1000 lb animals, 3000 lb animals........USING THE CORRECT BULLET !!!
An analogy..............do all you 30-30, 308, 30-06 shooters drive Smart cars (you know the ones, the little tiny ones from Mercedes), because that`s all you really NEED, they will do the speed limit and get enough groceries for a week and get around good enough........OR, do you drive a 4 wd pick up because you want your vehicle to do more for you, it burns twice the fuel, the tires cost 4 times as much to replace and they cost 3 times more to buy.........but dammit I want a truck, oh ya and let`s not forget that rougher ride. The 300 mags are the 4 wd pick ups of the rifle cartridge world, they do everything you want them to and don`t have any shortcomings, but they cost a little more to shoot and have a little rougher ride. The reality is the 300 mag family of cartridges fulfills every need without compromise from the 223/22-250 class of cartridge right through the .375 family.
I am really getting tired of people maligning one of the best family of cartridges to ever be developed since the turn of the last century !!!
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The downside to the 300 is that the rifles are heavy and awkward. They are fantastic tools for certain applications, but are outclassed in others; Still hunting for one, they also don't pack as well on a horse or quad as some other rifles. There are no perfect rifles or cartridges.
You could get a muzzle brake installed which will make a huge difference. I got one installed on my 270 wsm Sako and I can shoot it all day. If you want a lighter rifle to carry through the bush, but also want to do lots of practice with it at the range then get a muzzle brake professionally installed. It will make a huge difference. Some talk about how loud they are but when you are hunting it really isn't a problem because you are not firing multiple shots. At the range you simply put up a gun case between you and the next person, but since you are all wearing ear protection it really isn't a problem
My question was - do hunters find the 300 magnum family to be overkill- Bullet types are not the only difference I WSM. there are differences in bullet weights (220 grain for 300 WSM).. Which then gets into a subject of hydrostatic shock ... But we won't go there.
I know I can do everything I need with my current 223, 270, 270 WSM, 3006 ( and my 300 Wby which I just sold) but the essence of my question was about the merits of the 300 magnum caliber family.
I know an elderly gentleman who shared that when he was growing up would earn extra money by selling venison to families in the city. He took hundreds of deer using a 22 LR .... Before it was illegal and he never lost a deer, because he understood shot placement. I do believe him about not loosing a deer after seeing him shoot
This question isn't about if I need a 300 magnum caliber, but for most hunting purposes is it overkill. - meaning ..... does it destroy too much of the meat ... so far I'm not hearing that from most of the posters.
I don't own a 300 of any type but do shoot a 7mm rem mag, the added velocity and range benefits are cfmbi made reference to, at 200 yards a 7-08 would do the same but after adjustments to range would start to effect shooting time.
The reason i use the 7mm instead of a 300 is recoil is significantly less, with not a lot of difference in performance.
Hey C-FBMI. Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective ... Wished I had read your post a few hours ago before I sold my 300 Wby ... Sigh .... But I guess now I will look at a 300 WM OR RUM
A 300 doesn't need to be heavy or awkward, mines not at all but it does have a 24" barrel if that's what you mean by awkward, and I don't think in a 300 mag I'd want it shorter. It certainly isn't a niche rifle like my carbines nor flat as an 86 or 95 for scabbards, but I don't find it to be any more unweildly than any other normal BA rifle with a 24" or 22" barrel. But then as I've said a dozen times I put it together to suit my frame etc and my familiarity with it is what really counts to me, someone else may find it awkward or unweildy.
If you want to stay with a 24" barrel I'd find a nice 300 WM, if 26" doesn't bother you the the RUM is an amazing cartridge, but the ride gets noticably rougher with the RUM. My son and I both have the Rum but my pet is still my old 700 in 300 Wby. My son has made some outlandish shots with his RUM and it is to him what my Wby is to me. I'm pretty sure he's going to be looking for a barrel or new rifle in the next few years, he shoots it a lot. It is his go-to rifle for pretty much everything unless he's playing with a new cartridge or something, but he always has loads for it and if he wants to go hunting on zero notice it is always the RUM which goes and it doesn't matter what the quarry is from wolves to bison or grizzly.
I have the same feeling for the 308 Norma Magnum as Doug has for his 300 Weatherby.
I have taken a lot of game, starting about 1967, with this chambering, and have come
to depend on it in any and all situations.
A 200 partition at 3000 fps is very persuasive, and is not a serious meat destroyer in my experience.
My custom, Leeper-built 308 NM on a 700 action sports a 26" barrel, but my other 2 have 24" tubes.
These shoot plenty flat as well, and are not difficult to hit with well out past 400 yards.
Regards, Dave.
I have taken a lot of game, starting about 1967, with this chambering, and have come
to depend on it in any and all situations.
A 200 partition at 3000 fps is very persuasive, and is not a serious meat destroyer in my experience.
My custom, Leeper-built 308 NM on a 700 action sports a 26" barrel, but my other 2 have 24" tubes.
These shoot plenty flat as well, and are not difficult to hit with well out past 400 yards.
Regards, Dave.
This particular 300WSM was my dads' when they first came out. It's one of those hand-me-downs without being said type deal now that he's moved on to a .375 H&H (not that i'm complaining). I don't think I'd be in the good books if I started messing with it via a muzzle break addition if I were to keep it.
It depends a lot on where you hunt. For most of Ontario, where rifles are legal, the magnums are more gun than you need. Ranges tend to be short and the extra velocity just isn't necessary. My preference for deer is 7x57/.308. For moose, I like a heavier bullet and have moved up to a 9.3x62. None of these are speed demons, but they will reach out to 300 yards if occasion demands.
For hunts west of the Ontario border, I would agree with C-FBMI and Eagleye, that the .300 mags are one of the most versatile calibres.
