Military reloading

Stevebot-7 said:
http://www.scoutbasecamp.ca/
A person does not necessarily have to be in any way part of the military in order to buy or have an "infra red" or thermal optic. You just need lots of money. The part about him taking out the infra red makes me kind of suspicious. I've never heard of an optic where a person can add and remove thermal capabilities, though it is a possibility that he could have been using a thermal optic in conjunction with another scope or magnifier.

As was mentioned earlier, a person does not need to be part of the military to use "military" or "millspec" powder or primers. I use IMR 4064 to load .308 winchester, this powder used to be used in some military loads. Most powders have viable loads for a range of calibers and bullet weights. I personally picked IMR 4064 because I can use it for both .223 Remington with 55 grain bullets and .308 Winchester with 175 grain bullets. However, not all powders are made equal, so not all have the same flexibility.

As for snipers having access to bullets that civilians do not, yes they do. However these bullets, be they Armour Piercing or Incendiary, or whatever else, are supplied by the military and are very tightly controlled. There are people whose job it is to count and track this type of ammo. Even military spent brass casings are controlled, and must be destroyed after use, they are not allowed into unauthorized hands. It is not exactly the kind of thing where a person could grab an ammo can and walk off base to do some plinking. Or I suppose I should say that they are not allowed to do so, and will face very heavy punishments if they are caught doing so.

It's entirely possible that your friend is actually part of the military, and it's not impossible that he could have "acquired" some military hardware, but it's almost guaranteed that somewhere along the lines multiple laws were broken.
It's not impossible for such controlled ammo to find it's way into civilian hands, just a few months ago someone at the Shooting Edge I think got a crate of surplus Chinese ammo. It turns out that some of the ammo was API(Armour Piercing Incendiary), and was sent with the shipment by mistake.

As far as I am aware, the only normal military members who are allowed to keep their rifles at home, or hunt with them, are the Canadian Rangers, who are very, very different from the American Army Rangers. They have Enfield rifles, in .303 British.

If you can, ask your friend what unit he's part of, where he trained.
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....but if he did that and posted such secret info here on cgn, we'd all end up terminated with extreme prejudice........opsec is a bi!ch
 
wow this thread is gonna make the run at replacing the is there and Alberta militia thread.... lol

Working the gun counter at whole sale sports I ran in to DB's like the Op's friend all the time. Spouting about how they were snipers, JTF, operators and all sorts of BS. Most guys back off and STFU when they figured out I was army and was well aware they were lying, but the odd one plowed on full steam ahead with the lie they had built up. I had one guy insist he was a PPCLI sniper... and it went from 1st to 3rd battalion As I called BS since I knew people in 1vp sniper cell ; then it was the secrete snipers that the normal infantry don't know about.

I love the "I can shoot sub moa at 1200m bla bla bla" from a guy looking at an Axis (clearly as his first rifle... or first rifle after the SKS), the best I ever did with a .308 hand loads out of a T3 tac, after nearly a year of tweaking the loads and shooting that gun a couple hundred rounds a month, on a nice sunny day with no wind was: hitting golf balls at 300m, 2 for 3.... And some of these guys claim "thats alright but I can do that at 1000m" and claim they did it with a stock remington 700 VTR with a bushnell elite.... like come on....
 
OP,
some info you have, some you don't. Some have given you incorrect info.

As has been stated...

1. Rifle is personal property. You don't get to take it home. I was the CQ of my unit. Weapons and ammo were HEAVILY TRACKED and SECURED
2. No one in the military is allowed to fire hand loads from a military weapon, during a military operation or exercise. I was on the shooting team. I knew the armourers quite well, and we tweaked my .308 pretty good as well as the C-7. But I never had a .30-06 until I hit the air force.
3. Modified M77 in a takedown configuration, painted blaze orange, is packed in EVERY air droppable or stowed arctic survival kit. It is chambered in .30-06. I know, it's been my job to pack them, ammo, too so we must have it somewhere.
4. CF Snipers used .308 for a long time, then dabbled with a .50 when Carlos Hathcock started proving it was usable, but went to the .338LM which I got to try in '92. At no time did we use a .30-06 and I guarantee that no "military sniper" would use one either. Rifles, parts, and components being as easily obtained, he would have built the same rifle he uses at work within the civilian parameters. Ammo components are also easily obtained commercially.
5. Shooting small groups is the LAST skill required by a CF sniper. They don't shoot groups. They fire one round. It has to go where they want it to. Patience, the ability to wait hours for a 1/2 second exposure, the ability to judge wind, distance, altitude...these are FAR more important than small groups at 1000 yds.
6. It is illegal to sell hand-loaded ammo without a manufacturers' license and insurance would be out of this world.

It is safe to say that you may be the recipient of a little BS. As has been stated, those that do, rarely talk about it...any of it. Nothing to prove to civvies...

Just makes my brain do flip-flops when I hear some of the stories at the various gun counters I frequent...
 
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Stevebot-7 said:
http://www.scoutbasecamp.ca/As for snipers having access to bullets that civilians do not, yes they do. However these bullets, be they Armour Piercing or Incendiary, or whatever else, are supplied by the military and are very tightly controlled. There are people whose job it is to count and track this type of ammo. Even military spent brass casings are controlled, and must be destroyed after use, they are not allowed into unauthorized hands. It is not exactly the kind of thing where a person could grab an ammo can and walk off base to do some plinking. Or I suppose I should say that they are not allowed to do so, and will face very heavy punishments if they are caught doing so.
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I believe the OP was referring to bullets as in projectiles for home reloading, not bullets as in ammunition as you seem to be, there is a reason for the "I have no live rounds or empty casings in my possesion" at the end of the range day.
 
mike Crawford said:
I have been holding off on this because I am sure some people are going to laugh me off this site :????
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We're laughing with you Mike, not at you.... at least I hope you're laughing at this point. Perhaps it's not obvious to you, but anyone in the military and especially in the infantry can tell you that this guy's stories are just simply not plausible. He may be very convincing when spewing his fictitious stories so don't feel bad if you have been fooled. There are some very convincing liars out there. However most don't know the small details which are what will give them away. Ask him what the prerequisites are to be a military sniper and then report back to us with exactly what he says. That will likely clear this matter up PDQ.
 
I phoned a guy that buys alot of loaded shells off this guy .. 243 ;308; 30-06 ;300 win mag mostly.
He told me he has seen the papers himself where he was indeed a sniper unless he made the papers .

I personally have only met him once .
But if you are suppose to have a permit to sell shells.. Some one should tell him because he sells a #### load of them.
I am not worried about the laughing at me so much....
 
Is this the sniper in question?
weird-guy-with-guns.jpg
 
mike Crawford said:
I phoned a guy that buys alot of loaded shells off this guy .. 243 ;308; 30-06 ;300 win mag mostly.
He told me he has seen the papers himself where he was indeed a sniper unless he made the papers .

I personally have only met him once .
But if you are suppose to have a permit to sell shells.. Some one should tell him because he sells a #### load of them.
I am not worried about the laughing at me so much....
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Ya you need a permit, but maybe being a sniper n all he has special privileges.
 
mike Crawford said:
I phoned a guy that buys alot of loaded shells off this guy .. 243 ;308; 30-06 ;300 win mag mostly.
He told me he has seen the papers himself where he was indeed a sniper unless he made the papers .

I personally have only met him once .
But if you are suppose to have a permit to sell shells.. Some one should tell him because he sells a #### load of them.
I am not worried about the laughing at me so much....
Click to expand...
I feel it pertinent to mention that every so often gun clubs will do a historical qualification match, at the end of which they give out certificates showing that you meet the "1944 American Infantry pistol qualification" or whatever the theme is. The Canadian Historical Arms society did a WWII era American one last year, and I think they did a WWII Russian one this year.

That might be where he got the paper from. He might have attended a "Sniper qualification" match and scored high enough to pass.

It just seems to me that if he were a real sniper, telling people about it and having papers for it would one of the last things to do. Snipers rely on stealth just as much, if not more, than marksmanship. I know that if I were a sniper, and had been in "the ####" I would never ever tell anyone that I did not completely trust, because I'd be paranoid about people tracking me down to get revenge for killing their cousin Achmed or whatever.
 
Most of the early reloading powder was military surplus post WWII as there millions of pounds of it. I suspect that many of the modern powders are far better than what the military uses and that is determined by the terms of the contract that makers have to follow. if they can meet the contract with powder that costs $1 a pound as opposed to $2 a pound, guess which one gets used?
 
Another reason ex-snipers don't brag about being an ex-sniper is that they get a bunch of "job offers" from some pretty far out people. Worked with a guy, who was ex military and this was his reason for not advertising. Also I heard that if you were once a sniper in the Canadian Armed Forces you were considered a reservist for the rest of your life. The reason being that the Army could keep tabs on you so you can't start taking those "job offers"
Sounds plausible.
 
rookie wildcat said:
OP,
some info you have, some you don't. Some have given you incorrect info.

As has been stated...

1. Rifle is personal property. You don't get to take it home. I was the CQ of my unit. Weapons and ammo were HEAVILY TRACKED and SECURED
2. No one in the military is allowed to fire hand loads from a military weapon, during a military operation or exercise. I was on the shooting team. I knew the armourers quite well, and we tweaked my .308 pretty good as well as the C-7. But I never had a .30-06 until I hit the air force.
3. Modified M77 in a takedown configuration, painted blaze orange, is packed in EVERY air droppable or stowed arctic survival kit. It is chambered in .30-06. I know, it's been my job to pack them, ammo, too so we must have it somewhere.
4. CF Snipers used .308 for a long time, then dabbled with a .50 when Carlos Hathcock started proving it was usable, but went to the .338LM which I got to try in '92. At no time did we use a .30-06 and I guarantee that no "military sniper" would use one either. Rifles, parts, and components being as easily obtained, he would have built the same rifle he uses at work within the civilian parameters. Ammo components are also easily obtained commercially.
5. Shooting small groups is the LAST skill required by a CF sniper. They don't shoot groups. They fire one round. It has to go where they want it to. Patience, the ability to wait hours for a 1/2 second exposure, the ability to judge wind, distance, altitude...these are FAR more important than small groups at 1000 yds.
6. It is illegal to sell hand-loaded ammo without a manufacturers' license and insurance would be out of this world.

It is safe to say that you may be the recipient of a little BS. As has been stated, those that do, rarely talk about it...any of it. Nothing to prove to civvies...

Just makes my brain do flip-flops when I hear some of the stories at the various gun counters I frequent...
Click to expand...

Kinda couldn't get past that one as well...
 
mike Crawford said:
I am sure he must be a sniper .. Because from day one his daughter that is friends with my daughter said her father was a sniper .
The guys that buy shells off him say he is a sniper . And they hold true to the fact he uses Military powder and primers
He told me he was a sniper also .
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That doesn't mean anything. There is a prominent guy on this board who claims to have been a sniper in Vietnam and have 68 kills and he is entirely full of shart. He was even exposed on the Stolen Valor website. The vast majority of people I have met who really were snipers etc rarely talk about it. Those who blab are generally the BS'ers.
 
I use military powder. I could easily get mil spec primers. I was offered a sniper course as a carrot to keep me in the infantry, but family finally had to come first...enter...THE AIR FORCE... Although I consider myself a pretty good shot, and was nominated for a sniper course, and I know I can hit a combine at 1000yds ... I don't call myself a sniper.
 
Well I guess I did not get laughed at as much as suspected ....
But I am a little more enlightened on the subject anyway .
Ordinary people can buy power that is as good or better than Military powder .
Or they can buy Military powder ;;; and not have to be a sniper or ex sniper or Governor or anybody special to get it ..
Primers that are bench rest or match grade are also available to the public.

And you do not NEED a permit to sell reloaded shells

But I was surprised that snipers do not load there own shells ..
I thought using a shell some one else loaded when your life depended on it was like letting some one else pack your parachute LOL
 
Someone else does pack your parachute, they are called riggers.

If snipers, or anyone else loaded their ammunition how could the military ensure the ammunition was safe or legal to use. Ammunition that is brought into service must pass Ammunition Safety and Suitability Boards to ensure it is fit for use. Someone in Ottawa controls the procurement of small arms ammunition, what a nightmare it would be buying components to suit each sniper and where would snipers carry their reloading gear on operations?
 
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