Tempilaq for case annealing.... Source?

sandermar

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I have a batch of cases for my snider I would like to anneal to maximize service life. Anyone have a source for Tempilaq in the GTA preferably? These cases are too precious to fry and I'm to new at this to try it by eyeball alone.

Thanks
 
rotate over a flame in a drill and when the line reaches the bottom of the shoulder, stop.....

that's not eyeballing more than eyeballing tempilaq melt....
my anneals are all precise and to the same level.
5-7 seconds per case.
 
rotate over a flame in a drill and when the line reaches the bottom of the shoulder, stop.....

that's not eyeballing more than eyeballing tempilaq melt....
my anneals are all precise and to the same level.
5-7 seconds per case.

What do you mean by " when the line reaches the bottom stop"? It may seem like a dumb question but as I said this is new for me and I don't want to ruin these cases
 
When I started reloading about 50 yrs ago I was taught to stand them up in a tray of water almost to the shoulder. Heat the necks until they start to glow and tip them over into the water. It worked then and has worked for me ever since. Never found a reason to change my methods.
Best of luck.
Neil
 
start with a cheap case, any caliber, to test it. Really easy after you have done it a few times.

find a long socket that fits the case. (no need to hold the case, just fit it approximately). Put the socket on a drill.
Then, insert the case in the socket, and rotate the mouth of the case over the propane torch.(canted upwards just a bit so the case doesnt slip out of the socket) After a few seconds, the color of the mouth will change, and then you will see a "color change line" starting to go down the mouth, then neck, then shoulder. (the grayish color of annealed case necks), with a gray/blue line at the bottom.
When the line is just at the bottom of the shoulder, you are done. drop the case on a pan and do the next one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FU1udDEw9s

that shows the basic idea.

and here is some info
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html


"Unlike steel, which will be made harder when it is cooled rapidly, brass is virtually unaffected when it is rapidly cooled. Annealing brass and suddenly quenching it in water will have no measurable effect on the brass. "
So you can drop them in water if you want to "prevent" further annealing once you have hit the shoulder".

"When you get the faint blue color and the shine remains on the case, you have everything adjusted to perfection. "

IF you absolutely want an anneal that is 100% the same on every case, you need an automatic annealer. If you can live with an anneal that is "approximately the same and works", you can do it by hand.
Unless you are a 1000 yards champion, you probably do not need a machine I guess, unless you want one. Of course if you are processing alot of cases, often, automatic is faster.
 
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Thanks for all the feedback, I will experiment with varying techniques on some sacrificial
cases before moving to the snider cases.
 
Been doing it for a few years using a homemade annealer which was ok but never got real confidence. Always used temp crayons.

Just purchased a Bench Source annealer which is a pricey unit but WOW, does this device work well. What it confirmed was that temp and visual change ARE NOT RELATED.

The only real way to know what the temp reached is with a indicator like Templiac or similar temp changing indicators (I prefer crayons that flash off). Using the discoloration on the case body is not good as it can vary from brand to brand.

Some cases change colour dramatically, some you can't really tell they were ever annealed but both experienced the same peak temp and duration.

You can't just go by time in flame either as alloys vary so time needed to reach proper temper will vary from brand to brand and even lot to lot. I have one brand of brass that is taking approx. 4.5secs. Another a full second longer.

The flame temp is so high that it takes a fraction of a second to go too hot. When you use a proper annealing machine, you can control that exposure to a tenth of a second.

If you feel that annealing should be a part of your loading regiment, do it right cause it is very easy to do it wrong and that can lead to a whole world of headaches as you chase varying neck tension.

Jerry
 
If you feel that annealing should be a part of your loading regiment, do it right cause it is very easy to do it wrong and that can lead to a whole world of headaches as you chase varying neck tension.
Jerry

If you are shooting competition, and can afford a machine, you should definitely go tempilaq and machine.
If you just want to make cases "last longer", go the drill way.

Jerry is right on that point.

I anneal cases every 3 reloads, but that's just me.... I am no expert. But I have never had a split neck after 6 reloads on 300 win mag cases, max loads. (didnt reload 20 times either).

At some point, you have to decide how far you are willing to go/stop into precision reloading. Only you will decide.
 
Been doing it for a few years using a homemade annealer which was ok but never got real confidence. Always used temp crayons.

Just purchased a Bench Source annealer which is a pricey unit but WOW, does this device work well. What it confirmed was that temp and visual change ARE NOT RELATED.

The only real way to know what the temp reached is with a indicator like Templiac or similar temp changing indicators (I prefer crayons that flash off). Using the discoloration on the case body is not good as it can vary from brand to brand.

Some cases change colour dramatically, some you can't really tell they were ever annealed but both experienced the same peak temp and duration.

You can't just go by time in flame either as alloys vary so time needed to reach proper temper will vary from brand to brand and even lot to lot. I have one brand of brass that is taking approx. 4.5secs. Another a full second longer.

The flame temp is so high that it takes a fraction of a second to go too hot. When you use a proper annealing machine, you can control that exposure to a tenth of a second.

If you feel that annealing should be a part of your loading regiment, do it right cause it is very easy to do it wrong and that can lead to a whole world of headaches as you chase varying neck tension.

Jerry



Jerry that is one of the SMARTEST THINGS YOU HAVE SAID IN A LONG TIME, thanks, (and I am not being smart I am being complimentary) thanks I could not have said it better

with respect

Jefferson (I just got my bench source last week, but it will be spring before I try it as I am more of a collector of things)
 
Found a local source for a Temp Crayon, going to experiment with some sacrificial brass and a homemade system for annealing before investing in a commercial system. Thanks everyone for the help and comments.
 
You can't just go by time in flame either as alloys vary so time needed to reach proper temper will vary from brand to brand and even lot to lot. I have one brand of brass that is taking approx. 4.5secs. Another a full second longer.

The flame temp is so high that it takes a fraction of a second to go too hot. When you use a proper annealing machine, you can control that exposure to a tenth of a second.

Jerry

You make a good point. However, I think you'd end up with the same problem with an annealing machine for the same reason - different alloys having different annealing times. I suspect you'd end up having to anneal them all one by one unless you tested them all individually, THEN grouped and annealed them according to their respective length of time in the flame.

Therefore, I suggest you'd be better off annealing each casing by hand, using a drill, deep socket and Tempilaq.

:)
 
I am following this thread with interest. I have annealed in the past using the socket, drill, bucket of water method with seemingly good results. Some of my .350 Rem cases were splitting at the neck on the first firing and now they are not. I have no idea what temperature I reach when doing this, but following the colour change to the base of the shoulder seems to work well enough. If I experiment with Omegalaq, what temperature range would I aim for. I assume one would aim for an average temperature range since each company's brass, and individual cases within a lot, will vary slightly. Omegalaq offers liquid indicator in a range of temperatures from 79C to 1093C.

Answered my own question. 700F seems to be the optimal temperature. http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
 
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Only thing I can add to this thread, is that even if some cases are overheated a bit becoming too soft in the neck area, they will harden up again after repeated firing and resizing cycles. So they might not be junk.
 
By using an annealing machine you can set it up to each type of brass by sacrificing only a couple of cases if you over do it.
My tempilaq is in the mail and I will let you guys know how it goes once I'm done testing.
 
You make a good point. However, I think you'd end up with the same problem with an annealing machine for the same reason - different alloys having different annealing times. I suspect you'd end up having to anneal them all one by one unless you tested them all individually, THEN grouped and annealed them according to their respective length of time in the flame.

Therefore, I suggest you'd be better off annealing each casing by hand, using a drill, deep socket and Tempilaq.

:)

The key to these newer machines is the time in flame can be controlled very closely. You are keeping dwell time into the tenths of a second. I doubt anyone can be that consistent doing it manually as fatigue and reaction times will vary throughout the process.

Does it mean the result it always right? NO. It means that we now have a way of determining what is right. And/or varying until we get it right.

The extension of confirming your result is to use a seating pressure gauge and monitoring the force needed for each rd. Compared to a desired level and within whatever tolerance is deemed satisfactory, you can cull rds that have more or less then desired seating pressure. The confirmation would be holes in paper and if all is well, you have a robust process that can be repeated and quantified.

Ideally, that is the whole goal of precision loading - Same, same, same.. all into 1 hole.

And I have proven to myself many rds ago that consistent neck tension is ubber critical to lowering vertical and small groups at distance. With proper powder charge weighing, has given me the largest gains on target.

Jerry
 
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