Lube Failure

Ganderite

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If I was trying to shoot the highest CQB score possible, I would shoot the rifle and pistol that work best for me. That would be my 14” AR-15 and my M&P40.

I own a lot of different rifles and pistols and try to take different ones to the CQB matches to see how they go. The strengths and weaknesses of guns sometimes don’t show up until you try them in a stressful situation.

At the Guelph match I shot my non-restricted 858 with a SPARK red dot for the first time and was surprised at how well it did, even though mag changes are not nearly as easy as a AR15.

For the last match of the year I decided to try it again. As a back up rifle (I always bring a spare, in case I or someone else needs one) I brought another 858 with iron sights. For the first time, I needed the back up. The red dot disappeared. (Turns out I had accidently hit the night time button).

The back up rifle sort of ran ok with Russian ammo (7.62x39) but would not cycle reliably with the Romanian. And I ran out of Russian.

One of the things I do with semi-auto guns is down load factory ammo until I get to where the gun won’t cycle. This gives me an idea of how much ‘cushion” I have. In my M305 (Norinco M14) I can down load from 42 gr standard load to 25 gr and it still cycles 100%. I never did find out where it would stop.

With my CZ858s I found the factory ammo has about 25 gr of powder, and the guns still work 100% at 17 gr., so they get lots of gas with factory loads. So why did the rifle not work? It was clean, but I had lubed it with spray lithium grease. The temp was about -5 C, and I guess this gummed up the works.

I have made a note in the log book about this. I am going to clean all 4 rifles with brake cleaner and tooth brush, and then lube 2 with Break Free and 2 with G96. When the temp drops to about -20C I will stick them outside for awhile, along with the ammo, and then test. My experience with both lubes at low temp has been good, but I never gave them a proper test.

I recall being on the Winnipeg police range one day when some guys came in who had been on a stake out. It was about -40 outside. One of them decided to shoot his MP5. Nothing happened. Frozen solid. I suggest they try CLP. They did and were happy. Now it is my turn to try it.
 
As a control you should relube another rifle with the white lithium grease to show that it was truly the problem.

Yes. Except the rifle was used a month ago in warmer weather (same) ammo and it worked. Now it does not work. Only difference is temp.

I will see if I can borrow another 858 and then test 5. One will remain with the grease, 2 with CLP and 2 with G96.
 
Here is a test commissioned by the RCMP in 1995.

Note that Breakfree failed outright. I've seen it cause stoppages as high as -14 C. The arcticization oil MILSPEC VVL-800 only works in the -40 C range and i'm pretty sure just reading the label causes cancer.

Some oils out now that were not included. I participated in a cold test recently and ISSO and Burke's Gun Oil were the only oils that still functioned at below -65 Celcius.

Consequently I use Burke's in the winter on everything. The navy uses it for salt water corrosion resistance. Keeps rust off and doesn't freeze.

There are lots of other considerations, sand testing, corrosion resistance, high temp testing, flammability, etc.

Grease tends to cause stoppages in extreme cold, but most folks on here won't go outside in that. It also traps sand - a bad idea for most rifles. In a mechanical device designed for grease - think mini guns or chain guns -that's fine. Again, most people don't need to be in sand.
 
Throw some CLP in a deep freeze (-20) and it turns to honey. At above 0 it is to thin to lubricate properly and burns off super fast.
I can get CLP for free yet I buy and use Slip 2000 EWL.


There is an Alaska highway patrol test from a few years ago. Only two lubes that passed their tests were Rem-Lube (which surprised me) and Slip EWL.

I will look for the test report when I get home.
 
Ganderite:

I have some Frog Lube that I refuse to use any longer on any guns that I'd be willing to send you for your test.

I already know that it's going to fail horribly, but I'm curious to know how horribly.

Let me know if you're interested.
 
Call me crazy but I've never had any problems with the el-cheapo outers gun oil haha. I run pretty close to dry when it's say a nice Manitoba -35 but there is still oil in the gun. Runs good in all my bolt guns, 858 and will test the xcr in a few more weeks
 
Thank you for the great information, I appreciate it!

I will add to it if I may. I am a liscenced auto tech(mechanic), and I know that white lithium grease is pretty crappy, especially when it gets cold. As well, it tends to attract moisture and in long term situations, it can actually have rust underneath it. I have seen this on door jambs, near hinges "treated" with white lithium grease.
 
G96 I can verify works after a pistol has been out in -50 for an extended time. It's also on the RCMP recomended list.

Recently I soak with G96 and add Shell Roteilla 0-W40 full synthetic diesel oil. I can confirm this oil worked great in -54 while in my F350 powerstroke!! Seems to slick up the action better than oils I've tried. With the G96 seems like a good combo. I'll see how it works out. I should add it Makes bolt actions super slick. AR actions too.
 
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