Help with OCW loading
- Thread starter SoBored
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If you can maintain that level of consistency and happy with that level of performance, have at it.
Check the bedding. Just because there is goop in the stock doesn't mean it is done well or properly.
Better scale - trickle or not if the error in the scale is high, the readout number is irrelevant.
Better seater. Lee collet neck die is awesome, their seaters for long bullets are crap.
Lighter trigger will make life so much better.
Check the tracking of your scope and that it will hold zero. Simple test. With a repeatable load, dial 1 or 2 revolutions on either or both turrents. Return to orig value and see if the bullet falls into the group. If you can brace the rifle securely, you can watch how the reticle moves across a target. Either will or it will not. Simple
As for new scope under $500 with all the goodness, the only 1 I have had success with is the Bushnell Elite 3200 10X. That was a long time ago but they did work well. Unfortunately, so many brands are dumming down their product so it is hard to know what will or will not work.
I can say that any of the better Sightrons WILL so you pay a bit more and love your scope.
Odds are with proper bedding, and load tuning after seating the bullets straight, anything consistently around 5/8min is awesome with a factory pipe.
Jerry
I see you are using imr 4895, try H4895 ive had better luck with that, and its close to varget burn rates.
Thanks for all the help everyone. I've got quite a grocery list to work on.
Tim
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
It doesn't matter for load development.
It doesn't matter at one fixed distance.
It also doesn't matter at any longer distance (100m and further)
(it does start to have effects at close and at extremely close distances - like 20m, 10m etc)
With a ladder/OCW test you're looking to see if there is some sort of vertical barrel whip happening, and maybe you can find an insensitive spot.
The best results from an OCW/ladder test is that your rifle's doesn't seem to have any dependence on the charge weight / bullet speed.
If there is a horizontal shift in POI as velocity changes, that's usually more problematic than a vertical shift; while it is possible you might be able to tune around it, it's also quite possible that you won't and it will trouble your accuracy.
Don't get too worked up about this until you can repeat your testing under known good conditions (snug bedding screws, scope mounts etc).
This would be an excellent topic for a standalone post (how to adjust parallax).
BTW your technique is an excellent way to get good results from a scope that might have parallax (perhaps it is not adjustable for parallax, or perhaps the conditions under which you are shooting do not allow you the opportunity to zero out your parallax).
Even if your scope's parallax is nonzero, if you apply this technique correctly, you will have worked around and compensated for the scope's parallax.
Like JR86 and Mystic, I too have had good luck with the Bushnell Elite Tactical 10x fixed. IMHO, I would not go lower in quality/price than Bushnell Elites. I do know people have had good luck with Vortex Viper series, and I love Sightron which is on my Precision rifle. Parallax should not be an issue at 100 yards as most modern scopes are parallax free at that distance, if the Falcon is holding adjustments, then that variable could be taken out of the equation. Now, just deal with all the other variables, and you're set! Easy...
Carry on and good luck.
Carry on and good luck.
Yes a torque wrench, Bushnell Elite, lower rings, RCBS Competition Seating Die, RCBS Chargemaster, some H4895, some Varget, Berger bullets, Sierra Matchkings, Devcon, a Timney trigger, a better front and rear bag and I'm all set to see how my $350 dollar rifle can shoot.
I was thinking about selling this gun as is and getting a Savage 12FV, but then I'd still need half the things on that list and I'd still have a Savage factory barrel in 1 in 9 twist. So onward and upward. I think I'll check the bedding, borrow a torque wrench, put my lower rings on, (I hope I get them today!!), shoot some groups and see how it goes.
But then, it's either the Timney or the Chargemaster. I think I'll see how the groups go before I decide.
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Changed my scope to my other Falcon Menace, it's a 4.5-18x50, much finer crosshairs, lower rings, much better cheek weld. I also painted the stock OD, that should be good for 1/4 MOA right there. Dug around and found my front rest and rear bag.
Still mucking around with IMR 4895 and 75 AMAXs, there's a hell of a powder shortage at the moment as I'm sure you're aware. There is a store that stocks Bergers about 1.5 hours from here I should take a drive. Otherwise, the groups where coming in around .8 or .9 MOA. Gempro scale is on order as is some other goodness. Thought it would be neat to document the progress.
Still mucking around with IMR 4895 and 75 AMAXs, there's a hell of a powder shortage at the moment as I'm sure you're aware. There is a store that stocks Bergers about 1.5 hours from here I should take a drive. Otherwise, the groups where coming in around .8 or .9 MOA. Gempro scale is on order as is some other goodness. Thought it would be neat to document the progress.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Those groups aren't too bad for a 1 in 9 twist barrel, 75gr A-max's, and the current weather in Southern Ontario.
Thanks redshooter!
I finally got out again. My local guy had 200 Hornady 68 grain match HPBTs so I picked them up. I didn't see the sense of loading them up while I had a Gempro 250 coming my way. The Gempro showed up Thursday and I loaded some. I'm still using the IMR4895. I did 22.5, 23.0, 23.2 and 23.5 grains. I was shooting well, twice I had shots 1-3 touching and then things would go to hell on shots 4 and 5. I think there is a slight improvement as most of my groups where around .75 MOA instead of having the 0.75 being the best group.
I can't wait for my Rifle Basix trigger and maybe I'll pick up some Varget and see what happens. Maybe 0.75 MOA is this barrels or my limit. Either way, I'm still impressed with the Stevens and will upgrade the barrel sooner or later.
I finally got out again. My local guy had 200 Hornady 68 grain match HPBTs so I picked them up. I didn't see the sense of loading them up while I had a Gempro 250 coming my way. The Gempro showed up Thursday and I loaded some. I'm still using the IMR4895. I did 22.5, 23.0, 23.2 and 23.5 grains. I was shooting well, twice I had shots 1-3 touching and then things would go to hell on shots 4 and 5. I think there is a slight improvement as most of my groups where around .75 MOA instead of having the 0.75 being the best group.
I can't wait for my Rifle Basix trigger and maybe I'll pick up some Varget and see what happens. Maybe 0.75 MOA is this barrels or my limit. Either way, I'm still impressed with the Stevens and will upgrade the barrel sooner or later.
Sometime in the summer, some rounds left the range and our high power range got shut down for about 2 months for inspections, improvements and another inspection. This put things on the back burner for sure.
I did get the rifle basix II installed and I was trying to work up a predator load on Saturday with some 3031 and some 50 grain soft points but couldn't get a single group under 1.5". I did run a test group of some older 68 grain HPBTs with some IMR 4895 and I think it did better. I should scan the target and load it up. But I certainly got rusty over those couple of months.
I did get the rifle basix II installed and I was trying to work up a predator load on Saturday with some 3031 and some 50 grain soft points but couldn't get a single group under 1.5". I did run a test group of some older 68 grain HPBTs with some IMR 4895 and I think it did better. I should scan the target and load it up. But I certainly got rusty over those couple of months.
Here was the one group I am willing to post. 23.3 grains of IMR4895 under a 68grain Hornady BTHP, (the notes on the target are wrong). Hopefully I'm just rusty as this was measured out on the Gempro 250, seated with the Forster Competition Seating die and released with the newly installed Rifle Basix II. I think I need to do up about 25 rounds around this powder charge, touching the lands and get more trigger time in.
With those improvements, I was hoping to shave off 0.25", not put it on.
With those improvements, I was hoping to shave off 0.25", not put it on.
I would have to insist that cheek weld is crucial. Natural point of aim requires that you exert a minimal amount of muscle tension to hold an aiming position. Ideally, your cheek bone should settle on the comb in such a manner that your eye is aligned perfectly with the reticle EVERY time. In other words, you should "drape" your skull on the comb. This might require a cheek rest. Also, if you're using the factory trigger weight (forgot if that was lessened in this long thread) then that's a problem as stevens \ axis tends to be around 7 pounds. The stevens is adjustable whereas the axis is not. I think you can back it off to about 3-4 pounds. Obviously mechanics such as trigger control and breathing are important. Ensure the tip of the finger is placed in exactly the same position every time, and depress straight to the rear, with follow through. Don't align your torso at an angle to the axis of the rifle as was done back in the day. The axis of the rifle should be parallel to the axis of your body. This is to allow your body to absorb recoil symmetrically such that the axis of the barrel recoils straight back in line with the target. Of course, fire at the bottom of the breathing cycle, and time it in between heart beats. You can see the reticle vibrate slightly with each beat. Try to fire just after a vibration of the reticle.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if you have high wind, this will impact even a 3200 fps 75 grain bullet @ 100 yards. To eliminate wind, you might want to go to 50 or even 25 yards, and extrapolate results to 100 yards.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if you have high wind, this will impact even a 3200 fps 75 grain bullet @ 100 yards. To eliminate wind, you might want to go to 50 or even 25 yards, and extrapolate results to 100 yards.
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Thanks JoeBlow. I've been reading a lot about shooting from a rest as I think I picked up a lot of bad habits with the time away. Also, the rifle now has a very nice Rifle Basix II trigger in it.
Tonight? Some homework. I had the ejector out of my Stevens so I ran seating depths to get every bullet I had on hand to the lands. Hopefully I can get to the range tomorrow and pay better attention to my shooting. I was using way to much force to hold the aim. Shoulder, cheek and grip, not good. I'm going to let the rests do the work. Also added some more fill to my rear bag as I wanted those ears fuller now that I know the true role of the rear bag.
Tonight? Some homework. I had the ejector out of my Stevens so I ran seating depths to get every bullet I had on hand to the lands. Hopefully I can get to the range tomorrow and pay better attention to my shooting. I was using way to much force to hold the aim. Shoulder, cheek and grip, not good. I'm going to let the rests do the work. Also added some more fill to my rear bag as I wanted those ears fuller now that I know the true role of the rear bag.
Yeah, it was pointed out that wouldn't work and my setup wasn't accurate enough to test that anyway. However, I'm still keeping the thread going because I wanted to document the progress of pushing the stock barreled Stevens as much as I could. I've added forster seating dies, very accurately measured powder charges, tuned my front and rear rest, swapped the scope for a lower, higher powered one. I didn't want to just abandon it after getting all this advice.
Don't know if you missed it, on page 3, post 28, I had switched scopes to a lower mounted 18x one. I think it helped a bit, but it might have just been all the shooting I was getting in.
Never did that. I will look into it after today's tests. It's sunny and calm and I'm going to try 69 grain SMKs and a few different shooting methods today. Thanks for the tip.
I did get to the range today. On the way I went to TSC and picked up some Winchester white box 45 grain as control to see how it did. It didn't run worth a damn. Probably too fast a spin. Nothing under 2" @ 100 yards. As I started with this ammo, things were looking grim.
Joeblow38 got me thinking about the importance of a consistent hold for each shot so I started reading and found a great article here.
gunsmagazine.com/bench-basics/
I feel this article had an immediate and positive impact on my shooting. Sorry Joe, it said no cheek at all, which is probably easier for a beginner than consistent shot to shot cheek pressure.
I did 5 groups round robin, #1 was with 68 grain Hornady HPBT, 2 thru 5 were with the 69 SMK. I think these bullets are worth the little extra over the Hornady, but the targets will tell that tale. Many groups where forming up nicely giving 3 or 4 shots touching, then a flyer or two. I think this follows the adage, "Handloading gives accuracy, a good rifle gives consistency."
Think I've had it with the Hornady bullets, moving on to Sierra's and will try Bergers.
I could fiddle with seating depths, bed the action better and use a proper torque wrench for the action screws, but I think with group #5 coming in @ just over 5/8" I've pushed the stock barrel about as far as I will.
Joeblow38 got me thinking about the importance of a consistent hold for each shot so I started reading and found a great article here.
gunsmagazine.com/bench-basics/
I feel this article had an immediate and positive impact on my shooting. Sorry Joe, it said no cheek at all, which is probably easier for a beginner than consistent shot to shot cheek pressure.
I did 5 groups round robin, #1 was with 68 grain Hornady HPBT, 2 thru 5 were with the 69 SMK. I think these bullets are worth the little extra over the Hornady, but the targets will tell that tale. Many groups where forming up nicely giving 3 or 4 shots touching, then a flyer or two. I think this follows the adage, "Handloading gives accuracy, a good rifle gives consistency."
Think I've had it with the Hornady bullets, moving on to Sierra's and will try Bergers.
I could fiddle with seating depths, bed the action better and use a proper torque wrench for the action screws, but I think with group #5 coming in @ just over 5/8" I've pushed the stock barrel about as far as I will.
