Trophy Hunting
- Thread starter sheephunter
- Start date
We already control population numbers with a ewe hunt that is on draw. As we are killing ewes annually, it would kind of speak to the fact that overall population is not an issue. Hunting males with a horn size restriction has no impact on overall population numbers. If population numbers really were an issue, we'd cut back on the ewe hunt, not the ram hunt. That management option already exists.
According to SRD we are at carrying capacity so I'm not certain where this "plenty more room" you speak of exists. If hunters got their way and SRD would actually do something about aspen encroachment on winter range then perhaps we would have plenty more room. I'd love to see more and better sheep...that's why I'm fighting for the government to get off their butt and do something about improving habitat and not further reducing hunter opportunity as a temporary solution at best. A draw on rams is far from logical...in fact it's illogical.
Sheep aren't hardy animals? Are you kidding? Have you seen where they live? Do you know they live well past double digits in age and longer than most whitetail deer? The population has been stable for decades and the only problems the population has ever encountered were disease and not hunters. Diseases caused by domestic livestock grazing in sheep country.
Whitetails are more hardy than Sheep, lol, now I've heard everything.
I've never heard "the sheep had a bad winter this year" unlike whitetails.
Prescribed burns and removing cattle from sheep wintering ranges would increase the population a lot more than a draw would.
I love the way ole Marco has this dead horse and he just can’t stop beating it, also love the way two of our Regional Bio’s seem to think that if they both grab a whip it might help get this thing back on its feet as well.
I also find it interesting that in this paper they have decided to only use data from zones that have shown some “issues” and have left out the zones that are showing success. It’s also interesting that they have left out the first two weeks of the season and the last week of the season. Can’t imagine why they would be concerned about that (read in the dripping sarcasm)?
So the data used is from specific zones and specific dates in the season. Now couple that with the curious similarities found in not only the previous papers from Coltman et al. and that ridicoulous power point presentation used by SRD in the past and we see the same dead horse using the same rational that killed it and ignoring the alternative potential rational for the numbers they have developed.
Please Jim Allen start looking into these issues seriously and stop letting this group get so much press not only in public but in your office.
I also find it interesting that in this paper they have decided to only use data from zones that have shown some “issues” and have left out the zones that are showing success. It’s also interesting that they have left out the first two weeks of the season and the last week of the season. Can’t imagine why they would be concerned about that (read in the dripping sarcasm)?
So the data used is from specific zones and specific dates in the season. Now couple that with the curious similarities found in not only the previous papers from Coltman et al. and that ridicoulous power point presentation used by SRD in the past and we see the same dead horse using the same rational that killed it and ignoring the alternative potential rational for the numbers they have developed.
Please Jim Allen start looking into these issues seriously and stop letting this group get so much press not only in public but in your office.
Very little in life is 2 dimensional - especially when wanting to "solve" a problem.
Here is a quick and dirty concept:
If I lease a piece of grassland, there is a "carrying capacity" that the lease comes with - basically to ensure the leaseholder manages the grass in a sustainable fashion.
There is a similar fluid capacity that exists for all ungulates - and for sheep that relates to a very specific grass profile where they have the terrain they require to escape predators. This means that the "ideal" habitat is limited. It can increase/decrease a bit based on fire, run-off etc. The reality is they have a definite capacity based on how they have evolved as a species.
White-tails are no more prolific in breeding - maybe less so (have you ever seen the size of a Ram's nuts?). And more hardy? They would certainly die trying to make a living on the side of a mountain outcropping in a -30 day in a blizzard - when I have seen sheep sit there like its Tuesday at the office.
They are very adaptable though - they can exist in the Prairie, in a cat-tail slough, a mountain meadow or the heavy timber. They seem to be able to handle pressure from predators.
There are so many variables at hand in each species that any reasonable comparison between the two to justify a policy change is asinine.
That is the key there Tempest - but as I mentioned earlier, Alberta finds a direction it wants to take policy wise and then adapts the Science to support it.
Yeah I know it's topic drift, but last year that I sat down and added them up I came up with over 20 deer that were available in Alberta. Lots of them does, but that was between the general tags, special area tags (Strathcona County, etc.) and the like. Lots of travel, lots of having to be flexible in your choice of arms.
On the sheep front, I'm not so happy to have the outfitters concerns being the driving force on management strategy. Not a sheep hunter myself, but am a fan of fairly open opportunity, which, to me, means that if the population can handle "x" number of harvests, then those options should be available to the guys that are willing to put in the work to get to them.
The reality of sheep hunting to me, is that the guys that are serious about it are the guys that are out in the boonies doing it, there is not a whole lot of "lets hop in the truck and cruise around until we see a good one" involved.
One possible method could be to use a system similar to how BC handles the Cougar population, in that, during the season, each morning there is a recorded message that tells you if the season is still open or if the quotas for that zone have been met. Though it sounds like a crapshoot as far as dropping your money on an outfitted trip (yeah, it is) it is narrowed down to small enough areas with sheep that like as not you are going to be aware at least, of who else is on the same mountain as you. Communications in and out are definitely not the issue they were twenty years ago.
Dare I say this, but if the tags are gonna be on a draw basis, then the outfitter should be applying for draws along with everyone else, if he's the one selling the ride. It kinda makes me cranky when there are assigned tags for outfitters to sell for what they can, when residents cannot reasonably access the opportunities.
Cheers
Trev
You keep talking population...the key to population increase or decrease are the females. The key to horn growth is nutrition and on winter range at carrying capacity, once again the number of ewes are the key to a ram's horn growth...so yes, they are most definitely on the table.
It appears that your not willing to move to sacrifice a few missed years of sheep hunting to improve ram quality. I love to hunt antelope and mule deer and was quite content when the government placed it on draw to better the herds in quality and quantity. I new that my draw would not be successful every year, therefore I was willing to sacrifice those missed years, which is a most unselfish act from hunters for good of conservation. Today hunters are reaping the benefits of good wildlife management where outstanding antelope, mule deer trophies harvested by hunters along with super mega bull elk coming out of the prairies.
It seems you don't understand the real issues facing bighorn sheep in Alberta and what would happen if a draw were instituted. You keep bringing up other species in Alberta like there is some correlation...there isn't. If you are content with your kids and grandkids hunting sheep once or maybe never in their life, keep pushing for a draw that will do nothing to address the real issue facing bighorn sheep in this province. If not educate yourself on the issue and become part of the solution.
No, the key to great horn growth is genetics, nutrition and age. A 8 year old ram is going to be much larger than a 5 year old, hence older the bigger. This would be most beneficial in southern Alberta since there has been a study (Dale Paton, et el) that Southern Alberta rams grow bigger than the Cadomin rams.
The solution is the draw system and it has proven itself over time and time again with other species. Sheep hunters are not willing to sacrifice their annual trek for the better of conservation. You are only speculating what would happen if there was a draw. Let there be a draw and see what happens.......sacrifice a few years.
That is not even remotely true with bighorns. Like I said, spend some time educating yourself on the subject and become part of the solution.
So rather than constantly talking about how it's worked with other species where there is no correlation to bighorn sheep, why not look at other jurisdictions like Wyoming that do have an across the board draw on bighorns and then tell me how this would be good for Alberta sheep or hunters.
Declining winter range. Simple enough?
