I have both a tavor and a t97, don't bother with the t97
T97 on sale $850
- Thread starter cyclops666
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I have both a tavor and a t97, don't bother with the t97
I hate this rifle, but if it falls to the same price range as the CQ-A, where it should be, then I would say it's a decent deal despite the horrid ergonomics, looks, and QC.
Speaking of price, talking to our American counterparts, they are crazy jealous over this rifles price point. The above notwithstanding, a functioning bullpup that takes STANAG mags in the sub-$1000 point makes them:
Speaking of price, talking to our American counterparts, they are crazy jealous over this rifles price point. The above notwithstanding, a functioning bullpup that takes STANAG mags in the sub-$1000 point makes them:
Wendy's the reason I bought a Mini 14, and if these get down to $599, I'll buy one.
sendmorebrains
Regular
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BCshooterFMJ
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- Location
- British Columbia
Sweet!
Yeah, because the SKS and T97 are so similar......
VZ is one thing, but comparing it to a SKS is just retarded IMO. SKS is great for the $ but really, the 2 guns are totally unrelated. T97 is way lighter, way smaller, takes AR mags (including 15rd Beo mags) and is already getting lots of aftermarket support from m14.ca
between the SU16 on one side, and the T97/Tavor on the other, the SU16 is scrap. Sell it if it doesnt snap on you first.
I don't understand why people are still crawling over one another for the t97. It's garbage. And a few pop up just fine, but some are showing abnormal wear from very little use, some are having mag compatibility issues, apparently none have a proper feed ramp, some have botched barrels with drill pressing a little down the bottom, completely messed up ergonomics, rubbish trigger, obscene bore offset, piss poor optics capability, unless you drop another what 300 on a flattop upper? All at the lovely gouged price of 1k or in this one 850 apparently. or 1150-1300 with the aftermarket ftu. Which then removes the standard irons so now you have to buy irons which is a minimum 100 if you find a good deal. See how this snowballs out to nearly double the price of a decent cz?
And yes the su16 is also utter crap. It is flimsy and built cheaply. Sorry that's just the simple facts keltec fanboys out there.
Have you even held a T97? Its one of the very few NR bullpup rifles in this country, and its not crap IMO. I had one and sold it simply due to the fact that I bought a KSG (not crap dont generalize all kel tec) but I will definitely buy one again in the future. If I bought the FTU I would put an optic on. Irons are not 100% necessary if you have a solid optic like a T1.
With regards to the CZ;
First off, you cant really compare the CZ and the T97. Different caliber, bullpup vs non bullpup, AR mags vs CZ mags (LAR mags/Beo mags) + the fact that T97 can be flat top after add on.
Also, these days CZ 858 are around $850-$900 stock with the import ban. Even IF you manage to get a CZ at retail price around $700, thats plus a rail system (~$150) and a better stock as the original one sucks (~$150+) so how is the T97 double the price if the CZ is at least ~$900 after necessary mods? (assuming you can get retail price on gun, unlikely) Either way you look at it your wrong IMO.
I'l take one for $850, just need to sell some guns first!
Not to throw this thread this thread off track but your comparing three totally different rifles!
CZ858 - one truly awesome rifles IMO! Looks like an AK, shoots cheap 7.62x39 ammo and overall a hoot to shoot! OK so corrosive ammo is a pain but its sooooo cheap!
SU16 - A rifle that folds in half? Sounds good to me! I hike and camp lots so this it really appealing. Not to hot on all the plastic and smaller bore it but looks and feels good.
T97 - A cheap bulpup theat takes AR mags? Great idea, just need one in 7.62x39!
These three rifles are all completely different and you cant fairly compare them. They all have their pro's and con's but if a manufacturer could produce a 30 cal, folding bulpup for under 1k, we all would probably buy at least one. So how do we resolve this? Buy one of each.
Not to throw this thread this thread off track but your comparing three totally different rifles!
CZ858 - one truly awesome rifles IMO! Looks like an AK, shoots cheap 7.62x39 ammo and overall a hoot to shoot! OK so corrosive ammo is a pain but its sooooo cheap!
SU16 - A rifle that folds in half? Sounds good to me! I hike and camp lots so this it really appealing. Not to hot on all the plastic and smaller bore it but looks and feels good.
T97 - A cheap bulpup theat takes AR mags? Great idea, just need one in 7.62x39!
These three rifles are all completely different and you cant fairly compare them. They all have their pro's and con's but if a manufacturer could produce a 30 cal, folding bulpup for under 1k, we all would probably buy at least one. So how do we resolve this? Buy one of each.
Do you really want me to start on the downsides of your precious bullpup?
I already have 2, I'm not too fussed, I got the first one for 700, the second for 750 and that one came with 7 mags. I have a total of 27 mags for both my cz, and neither of the two have had a single issue running all of the mags. I doubt you would find a t97 that can claim that
Even the westrifle vz2008 that has the chrome lined at 880. 150 for a railed top? My fab defense was $90 bucks for complete handguard, and I have run 800 rounds in one session on short order with 10 mags. So spare me the plastic will melt bs, it hasnt shifted poi, it runs just fine. the optic holds zero.
So lets change the cz858 to the vz2008 from westrifle. 880 vs 1000. superior functionality, The cz can accept m4 adjustable stocks, what if the t97 stock is too long or too short? How do you adjust for it? What shims for a minute amount of adjustability? Oh wait the LOP is fixed.
What about shoulder transitions? Can you shoot left handed without feeding yourself brass in the face? No, where is the safety selector? Way in the back. Where is the mag release? Way in the back and to the right? Every other bullpup has ambi mag releases, fammas, tavor, aug, msbs, vepr, fs2000 you name it.
So they tried to copy the fammas with an ambi center charging handle. How is that working with that low profile m14 ftu? little tight to access?
Can you show me how to clear a malfunction with your rifle? Oh it's a bit slow is it? Hmmm, what about the reloads? Some guns that have a whore hole like the tavor you can do some damn quick changes, lol try that one with your t97. Bullpup reloads are already less than ideal although with sufficient training I believe you can become decent at it, but the t97 with its tight magwell? Again show me how well that reloads work.
Have you found a cure for that ridiculous bore offset? Where do you mount lights to? How much of a shadow does that create?
556 is the superior ammunition, but I am confident with my chances to down people with a 7.62x39 if the day comes where I have to take human life. And on a less dark subject, in alberta you are not allowed to hunt with 223 you are with 7.62x39.
No quality ar has had trouble running decent stanag mags, be it gi or another variant, or pmag or lar. or beowulf. Yet the t97 is picky. Why?
Bullpups in my opinion are subpar at best and with the exceptions of an aug I really wouldn't own any other, and this is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to that lot, and you are trying to tell me that this thing doesn't suck? I'm sorry you like how it looks or some other subjective fun stuff, great. But this is not a good rifle by any stretch, and it costs 4 figures. Just because the next closest bullpup is more than double the price doesn't justify how much this costs. If this thing was 300 I would have bought one for vain curiosity and ran it till it failed after its second mag then just used it as a buttscratcher.
