FBI replacing .40cal with 9mm?

GunGuy34 said:
Shot placement is key. Neither caliber is a magic one shot stopper. Due to increased mag capacity's , the 9mm will keep you in the fight longer. We are talking about the FBI, in the US. Not whats legal in Canada, so get it right.
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10mm is, and was the reason why first they switched to that round after the Miami shooting incident. The FBI might have problems with the 9mm (not penetrating barriers, car windshields and doors) and they might be back full circle on this debate.

Supposedly .357 sig is a one shot stopper, I predict that is the way the FBI will go after they re-relize that 9mm is not good enough.
 
Dumantepe said:
10mm is, and was the reason why first they switched to that round after the Miami shooting incident. The FBI might have problems with the 9mm (not penetrating barriers, car windshields and doors) and they might be back full circle on this debate.

Supposedly .357 sig is a one shot stopper, I predict that is the way the FBI will go after they re-relize that 9mm is not good enough.
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Outside of a rifle round or shotgun, there is no such thing as a one shot stopper in the commonly carried pistol calibers. A 9mm to the heart or CNS, will kill just as well as the 10mm to the same area.
 
jackrabbit000 said:
:agree: The .40 S&W is not going anywhere. I bought a G22 and a 40-9 conversion barrel. Like the idea that I can shoot .40 and 9 from the same gun. Like the snappiness of the .40 and the 9 for cheaper ammo.
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+1

I Love my G22 Gen3 RTF with Lone Wolf 40-9 barrel. It's like having two guns for the price of one!

The funny thing is in Canada the 40cal Glocks sell for less than the price of 9mm Glocks (supply and demand)

I got my Glock for 599
Lone Wolf Barrel imported legally into Canada was 200
Two 9mm Glock mags 80. I now know I can feed 9mm into my 40cal mags (gonna try the next time I am at the range)

So for under $1000 I have a Gen3 Glock, four mags and two barrels which can shoot two calibers.

BUT if you have a 9mm Glock, you can't go UP to 40cal. It only works one way
 
GunGuy34 said:
Shot placement is key. Neither caliber is a magic one shot stopper. Due to increased mag capacity's , the 9mm will keep you in the fight longer. We are talking about the FBI, in the US. Not whats legal in Canada, so get it right.
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The only issue with that is the use of hollow points. They do weird stuff once they hit meat and expand. They twist and change direction. Your shot placement could be perfect yet it changed course. Or your shot placement could be marginal and it ends up being a lethal shot. It is important but I've seen hollow points do some weird stuff.

I should add that RCMP use 9mm. NATO is a factor for that choice. I wonder what the FBI thinking is.

I shoot 9mm but have shot .40S&W, 10mm and 45ACP. I like them all. 10mm was actually fun. I've stuck with 9 for cost and availability.

Oh and I can verify that 9mm will go through a windshield. I know the Internet has reports of them bouncing off. I guess it could happen if the angle was right bad shot etc etc. But I have seen them go right through. That was with hollow points. The guy was hit three times. However they expand and don't have much left after. Chances are it won't stop the person. Shotgun works better for that.

The two rounds I actually find the most interesting are 7.62x25 and 5.7x28. The 5.7 has very little recoil. You can drill those rounds fast on the same spot. Shot placement with fast follow up is very quick. I also wonder about the hydrostatic effect on organs near the wound channel as it bleeds off the high velocity.

I don't see 40S&W going anywhere. It's a decent compromise and has been widely accepted. It took off where the 10mm never really made it into main stream.
 
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Dumantepe said:
10mm is, and was the reason why first they switched to that round after the Miami shooting incident. The FBI might have problems with the 9mm (not penetrating barriers, car windshields and doors) and they might be back full circle on this debate.

Supposedly .357 sig is a one shot stopper, I predict that is the way the FBI will go after they re-relize that 9mm is not good enough.
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That's definitely not happening...even Texas DPS is walking away from .357Sig. Cool concept but it's on life support as a duty round.

Lot of research has been done over the last 10 years on terminal ballistics. 9mm is cheaper and does 99 and 44/100ths percent of what .40 does, plus some things it doesn't do, for cheaper.

I personally enjoy 10mm but it's long gone as anything but a cult round. .40 isn't turning into a cult round, but the reasons it was adopted by a lot of agencies a decade or two back are pretty much irrelevant now. Expect to see more big agencies going to 9mm.
 
baldabe said:
In Canada most of us will never use our pistols (or rifles/shotguns) for self defense. So this talk of capacity, ballistics and terminal performance is a waste of time. Shoot what you like best and let others shoot what they like best.
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Yep .

GunGuy34 said:
Shot placement is key. Neither caliber is a magic one shot stopper. Due to increased mag capacity's , the 9mm will keep you in the fight longer. We are talking about the FBI, in the US. Not whats legal in Canada, so get it right.
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Did Santa give you coal for christmas, little girl?

Laugh2
 
misanthropist said:
That's definitely not happening...even Texas DPS is walking away from .357Sig. Cool concept but it's on life support as a duty round.

Lot of research has been done over the last 10 years on terminal ballistics. 9mm is cheaper and does 99 and 44/100ths percent of what .40 does, plus some things it doesn't do, for cheaper.

I personally enjoy 10mm but it's long gone as anything but a cult round. .40 isn't turning into a cult round, but the reasons it was adopted by a lot of agencies a decade or two back are pretty much irrelevant now. Expect to see more big agencies going to 9mm.
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I have no doubt that 40 will be with us for a long time, and i don't think any one would suggest that LE agencies that adopted the 40 would to turn around and switch before their current service pistols run their natural life. But when decisions are being made for the next gen service pistol, bet we will see a big move back to 9mm due in large part to economic reasons.
 
10mm was going to be the round to beat at one time. Auto ordnance converted Thompson sub machine guns to 10mm for the fbi. Hk made the mp5 in 10mm for them also. 45 acp is a proven round and it is easy to go back to and use. No big expense to make the gun because the public buys 45acp also.
 
can14 said:
10mm was going to be the round to beat at one time. Auto ordnance converted Thompson sub machine guns to 10mm for the fbi. Hk made the mp5 in 10mm for them also. 45 acp is a proven round and it is easy to go back to and use. No big expense to make the gun because the public buys 45acp also.
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Not to burst your bubble, but there are many accounts of PO's putting full mags of .45 into bad guys and they were still running towards them... and survived.

It's all about shot placement.
 
smak_daddy said:
10mm trumps 357 in every way in my mind. :)
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can14 said:
10mm was going to be the round to beat at one time. Auto ordnance converted Thompson sub machine guns to 10mm for the fbi. Hk made the mp5 in 10mm for them also. 45 acp is a proven round and it is easy to go back to and use. No big expense to make the gun because the public buys 45acp also.
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It wouldn't be a complete discussion without "the 10mm crowd"....:stirthepot2:........:cheers:
 
just seen a vid of a .50 caliber machine gun execution, 1 shot to the head and its clean off. i know believe the fbi should start issuing .50bmg
 
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