Dear Sweet Mother of God
- Thread starter JNA
- Start date
so you want all new weapons/firearm technology to be sold at bargain basement prices?
Stanag mags have been around longer than many of the users of this board, old tech doesn't cost a lot of money, the R&D costs have been covered many times over and any patents ran out long ago.
The original stanag has had some improvements over the years. I have no problem paying for good firearms tech, but you need to look at the market you are selling to, like with he mdr. Police military and civilians have these mags already in inventory. If you made this rifle type with proprietary magazine which, let's face it, would cost 4x as much, desert tech would seriously cripple their sales. Competeing rifles would win out. If you sell a rifle at the same cost/quality bracket and then add $500 in mags, your rifle is now in new catagory at the bottom, and running an untested magazine type. New stanag pattern magazines don't seem to get a lot of complaints anymore and until we drastically change caliber/ammo type with these rifles why fix what isent really broken. Keep in mind they are looking for government contracts as well, which we all know love a good bargin.
(This is just an example) us a G36 Pmag, newer better design than stanag and still relatively cheap.
At some point people are going to have to give up the stanag mag or do you think 200 years from now plasma rifles will still be using them with norinco 5.56?
Realistically I think the 2 major factors in making a detachable magazine for a carbine/battle rifle is reliable followed by cheap. In a military setting I think the disposable nature of these detachable magazines really is a deciding factor. We are not talking about a firearm, but it's not uncommon for a solider to lose a number of mags in a combat setting. If stanag pattern mags where much more unreliable I would agree, but having used them myself and having many friends (and a brother) serving I the military, they work if you maintain them. Never had a mag failure with them, so I really don't see the point.
Obviously as I stated before with a plasma rifle the ammo type has changed and thus will require a new mag design. As long we use current ammo types they still work. I am sure if desert tech released a plasma rifle they would have went with a new magazine type.
I think the cost/mag type is a non issue provided it works as good as the rifle and is advancing in design just like the firearms it is being used in. Stanag mags have hardly been issue free, some of that is due to the varying manufacture of the rifles and mags with varying quality control, the other part is that some magazines are decades old with many miles of abuse.
Desert Tech/DTA rifles use their own mags, I don't see sales lacking or floundering because of them using their own design, this is no different just because it is a semi auto. The real issue is nobody wants to market a new firearm and mag unless the military will switch over, civilian sales are not any weapons manufacturers driving force.
Desert Tech/DTA rifles use their own mags, I don't see sales lacking or floundering because of them using their own design, this is no different just because it is a semi auto. The real issue is nobody wants to market a new firearm and mag unless the military will switch over, civilian sales are not any weapons manufacturers driving force.
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military needs are different than civilian, If I had to use my rifle to survive in a real situation I would not be dropping mags on the ground as I would run out rather quickly, I do not have a military supply chain to back me up with replacements, I would have to reload mine.
The stanag is praised by people doing 3 gun and other speed/accuracy events because they drop free and they just let them fall on the ground and move on. Well that is unrealistic IMO for any civilian to do as the supply will run out, then you just have an expensive club.
I think in the case of bolt action precision, magazines are less disposable. Desert tech used their own design because there wasen't a magazine on the market that did what they needed. If I worked for them I would have used AI pattern magazines and used a magwell block to go from long action to short action calibers, bu that's just me. Also their bolt action precision mags are priced right in line with the $100 AI mags. There is no "cheap" alternative in this catagory of firearm.
I somewhat agree with your assessment, but again replacing decades old mags is still cheaper with stanag pattern mags. I also think if a manufacturer is going to use stanag mag they need to develop a rifle that will feed from the different "types" of mags.
I also agree that manufacturers primary focus is military. I think however an arms company needs to drastically improve on combat rifle design before they will get the military to spend the money eh to replace stanag. If a plasma rifle where to over huge advantages over out current class of military small arms then the cost is worth it. For as much as I love this new MDR it does not offer enough advancement in capability to warrant the amount of money it would cost to switch mag types. It is in fact a selling feature for desert tech.
I somewhat agree with your assessment, but again replacing decades old mags is still cheaper with stanag pattern mags. I also think if a manufacturer is going to use stanag mag they need to develop a rifle that will feed from the different "types" of mags.
I also agree that manufacturers primary focus is military. I think however an arms company needs to drastically improve on combat rifle design before they will get the military to spend the money eh to replace stanag. If a plasma rifle where to over huge advantages over out current class of military small arms then the cost is worth it. For as much as I love this new MDR it does not offer enough advancement in capability to warrant the amount of money it would cost to switch mag types. It is in fact a selling feature for desert tech.
I totally agree with you on the civilian uses of these mags and their shortcomings, however as you stated before, arms companies are really marketing to the military. During An actual gunfight, I promise you won't care at the time where your mags go when they run dry. If you survive and are in a survival situation, replacing them will he worried about later. Just like 3 gunners I think most soldiers would agree that speed and accuracy are primary concerns.
DTA HTI mags are north of $250ea
The US miltary doesn't have money to swap out all the rifles and mags, money is the deciding factor more so than if the tech is better from what we see today. We are talking about a basic infanty rifle, not special ops etc.
you can't worry later if you are dead because you didn't have any mags to reload so your gun can keep firing, you by yourself have to worry about such things just as much as speed and accuracy count, but no supplies/running out will also kill you just the same.
If you are military and have supply troops behind you, sure you can afford to waste here and there but even that can run out, but that is not something a civilian has to fall back on that plays 3 gun
Just like you stated with civilians wanting a stanag mag because they are cheap and lots of people have them, I merely am pointing out another civilian need over a military one.
From a manufacturing standpoint, all they look at is military needs and potential sales when they want to bring this type of rifle to market, civies come last.
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I think with the HTI you are comparing apples to oranges. How much do comparable mags go for? No one makes .50 BMG mag That is only worth $50 and is reliable. You are right that running out will kill you, but if mags are cheaper I personally will buy more of them. Cheaper means more and more is always better in the case of ammunition.
I don't see how the point on the US military not wanting to swap out magazines is argument against STANAG pattern mags. if anything this point reinforces to manufacturers that if they want any military business they better try and use them.
I don't see how the point on the US military not wanting to swap out magazines is argument against STANAG pattern mags. if anything this point reinforces to manufacturers that if they want any military business they better try and use them.
In a real survival scenario you can't just stop in to the store and buy more, you are stuck with what you had on you at the time SHTF and you can carry. What are people doing 3 gun and other comps for if not practicing for something real? sure you can say it is for fun but that is not the answer you get if you ask guys at a comp.
I have more G36 mags than I ever did Stanag, because stanag are so common and cheap I never bought lots, they are just one click away, at your buddys house or a short drive to the local gun shop. If SHTF I would have been caught with my pants down
Pretty much all magazines I am aware of are a box with a spring and a follower, the only real difference being how the rifle retains that magazine. Out of pure curiosity, what amazing new magazine technology are you referring to that should replace it, considering our current box/spring/follower designs have pretty much been perfected?
I'm just wondering what you think the shortcomings of the STANAG are?
I'm just wondering what you think the shortcomings of the STANAG are?
Maybe start a new thread for that, or just use the search function as the issue has come up more than a few times here and on other forums.
But if you insist, STANAG is a dimensional std, not a type or brand, It would take pages of professional reviews to cover the shortcomings of each and every individual type. Some are better than others but the AR15/stanag is based of a very old design.
To think that it could not be improved upon is a little narrow minded IMO when you look at how far everything else in the firearm industry has come in the mean time.
A proposed dimensional standard, if you want to be exact. Yes, I was fully aware when I asked, which is why I was asking. It allows for many variations with different minor tweaks, but in the end it is a Box with a spring and a follower, not significantly different from nearly every magazine ever. Explaining the shortcomings should not be lengthy or difficult, ie; it requires a magazine well that must be a particular depth to accommodate the latching system. Or the vertical play may cause feeding problems if you monopod on the magazine with some rifles. These are tradeoffs that allow the mag to drop free, and you must decide what is more important.
If you have what is essentially a consumable item, you'd better have a really good reason to deviate from the standard. I have not heard of any super magazines, and what, I'm supposed to type "magazine" in the search bar? I would appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.
