Blackhawk Serpa...Fact or Fiction
- Thread starter Newfoundlandrover
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We're not friends, but I'm curious about your comment on the Fobus holsters. I have one for my Glock G17 Gen4 and I kinda like it!? {the holster, not so much the gun itself
}. Unlike the Serpa, one would have to put conscious effort into shooting ones' self in the knee using a Fobus.- Location
- Ottawa Ontario
just defending my position Slavex....I'll put the filter back on in future. - Newfoundlandrover
If what I say(and what those in the know seem to also say) is so wrong then feel free to provide data and/or evidence to the contrary. the design sucks, and the materials are cheap. Please explain the falacy in those statements.
As for the rest of your post. I never said I was an expert on any topic, that was your inference based on my post. My social skills are clean and pure. I have a few friends because I haven't the time, patience, or need for many. Just because I'm not here(cgn) to make friends doesn't mean I haven't and/or won't. As for call of duty, I don't own a console or video game of any kind. I prefer to shoot real guns or otherwise spend my time doing other interesting activities. I'm not slamming anyone, I'm simply stating facts and asking logical questions regarding their gear choice(s). If you want me to role play and tell you how cool you are and how awesome your serpa is, I'm not the guy to ask. It would likely benefit you and others if you removed your sentiment and enmotion from your gear.
Tdc
Why run two different holsters? And why run a holster of poor design and materials when you have a far better option?
Tdc
- Location
- Ottawa Ontario
The Serpa, for what it is, seems it will do just fine for the type of shooting I do. I don't holster a hot pistol and like the retention system. I've got a bunch of different holsters for a bunch of different guns, but wanted a modular level II for my G17 because its brand spanking new and the Serpa with its lack of friction, tends not to mark up the slide to badly. I just bought this thing...and who knows, it could end up being a piece of crap...but I'm going to at least give it a try. The money is already spent.
For the uses you have described it will work just fine. You now understand the failings in the holster, should you decide to run your gun hot, you are now prewarned of the issues it will present to you.
No it is poor design that allows for accidents of this type. Almost anytime a gun goes off unintentionally it's because a finger was where it shouldn't be, however in the case of the Serpa it's the design that causes your finger to be there. Again, it's the design, when reps for the company can't stop themselves from doing it, when it's a repeated incident across the planet, it's not a training issue, it's a design issue. were it isolated to a few incidents with people of sub optimal training, it would be a training thing. But when the top shooting schools, units and professional users have issues, it's design, not training.
No it is poor design that allows for accidents of this type. Almost anytime a gun goes off unintentionally it's because a finger was where it shouldn't be, however in the case of the Serpa it's the design that causes your finger to be there. Again, it's the design, when reps for the company can't stop themselves from doing it, when it's a repeated incident across the planet, it's not a training issue, it's a design issue. were it isolated to a few incidents with people of sub optimal training, it would be a training thing. But when the top shooting schools, units and professional users have issues, it's design, not training.
For a couple reasons actually
1) My sls is on my duty belt, with all my other #### on it. No need for everything else, when I'm in the office.
2) SlS is to big and cumbersome to where on a regular belt. The basic serpa is more stream lined and fits on a regular belt more streamlined.
I will NEVER run a serpa on the road, because there have been instances when you roll on the floor with some scum bag and some debris gets in the retention mechanism in your serpa, your ####ed. good luck getting your sidearm out.
We're not friends, but I'm curious about your comment on the Fobus holsters. I have one for my Glock G17 Gen4 and I kinda like it!? {the holster, not so much the gun itself
For someone shooting at the range in a 'normal' way a Fobus (or I guess potentially even the Serpa) might work - but in those cases an Uncle Mikes 'Law Enforcement' holster would work too. When you start to move beyond that, the wheels come off in a big hurry. There's a piece of video from the PLG advanced pistol course that shows me shooting right side down in urban prone through an opening (looks like a large beached whale with a twitch and a bald spot). In that clip I'm lying directly on top of my empty holster - it's directly under my hip bone (good job it isn't alive, 'cause it would sure as hell be dead afterward) - after that, I rolled across the opening (in the gravel) and shot off the other side, while lying on my mag pouch. No Fobus, or Serpa is going to be in one piece after a trauma like that. So I guess it depends what you're doing with your holster.
re holsters damaging pistol finish - true Kydex holsters are the easiest on your pistol, that said during the course I mentioned above, we were all told to put our guns on the ground in front of us, every single Glock and M&P shooter dropped their guns in the gravel, all of the 1911 guys bent down and placed them carefully.
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Oh, so the root of the problem comes out. Not only do you not compete, train, or serve, you also admit to never holstering(and obviously never drawing) a loaded firearm from a holster. So you don't need a holster, let alone a level two retention holster and your opinion is of absolutely zero value to this discussion. When you've run a holster for any of the above activities and done so with a loaded firearm, then get back to us with your "opinion" of said holster. Screwing around with the Serpa and an unloaded firearm(not that we treat them any differently) without the added stress of a timer or being shot, is in no way an accurate or useful method for evaluating gear.
On a final note with regards to your last post. You indicate that "everyone is entitled to their opinion" and you're right. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it may be. That's just my opinion...
Do you think you may ever end up hands on in the office and suffer a similar fate, or is that only possible on the street? I certainly hope that POS was issued and not purchased privately.
TDC
It doesn't look like you'll even accept the opinion of those that have drawn a readied pistol from a serpa (the last poster that did that, you dismissed with "Why is it that those who use this POS and have limited or zero experience with anything else, feel compelled to support it? The design is sh*t, the materials are sh*t, buy a better rig and move along."). Now, I'm pretty sure that the poster that you replied to said nothing about whether he had any experience with other holsters (as you opined), only that in his experience rolling around Afghanistan with it was a positive one. Yet you proceeded to trash his experienced opinion no differently than you trashed the OP's opinion. It makes the impression that you'll accept no good opinion of the Serpa regardless of the experience level of those that give it.
The gross result of Serpa use around the world is "crap" so the odd person who throws in a "it worked for me" doesn't really count anymore. This holster has long since been proven to be a bad design, with ####ty parts and crappy workmanship. The fact that a few people got ones that didn't fail is pure luck in my opinion, not a demonstration of how good it secretly is.
Buddy of mine wore his HP in two different serpas on tour. They didn't allow anyone at his FOB to carry cocked and locked no matter what holster they had so he obviously didn't commit a ND while withdrawing. This in no-way-shape-or-form speaks to tactical merits of the system because the pistol spent 6 months neatly seated in the thing. ''At least it survived'' is the only data point you can deduct from it.
Oh and check this guy out for good measure:
Oh and check this guy out for good measure:
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- Location
- Ottawa Ontario
Don't make assumptions.....I said I don't compete, that doesn't suggest I'm clueless or have no working firearms experience. I'll decide what level of retention I use, or how I handle my firearms. I shoot to relieve stress not surround myself with it with buzzers and timers. If I wanted to be around irritating noises.....I'd just stay at home and listen to my wife talk
You wouldn't happen to be married with TDC by any chance? Are you two always like this?
- Location
- Ottawa Ontario
In my original post, I clearly stated that I had just purchased this holster and had no experience with it. I simply wanted to know if it still carried it's questionable reputation, or if there had been something new added to previous discussions on it. I didn't come here to argue.....I just wanted to know what to expect from it. Thousands of these holsters are still being sold....I wanted to hear from both sides and form my own opinion.
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