How much Ammo can we legally own?
- Thread starter Pantharen
- Start date
I work with ammo and explosives and NEQ is not a percentage. It is the weight on the energetic material within a piece of ammunition or explosive. It gets more complicated with larger items as there are different rules for storage and transportation and some pyrotechnic compositions can be discounted.
For small arms ammunition we use:
5.56mm NEQ = 0.00168 kg each so 225 kg = 133,928 rds
7.62mm NEQ = 0.003 kg each so 225 kg = 75,000 rds
These NEQ's are averages as propellant weight may be adjusted as different lots of propellant are used to ensure standard performance from different lots of propellant.
For small arms ammunition we use:
5.56mm NEQ = 0.00168 kg each so 225 kg = 133,928 rds
7.62mm NEQ = 0.003 kg each so 225 kg = 75,000 rds
These NEQ's are averages as propellant weight may be adjusted as different lots of propellant are used to ensure standard performance from different lots of propellant.
I also don't know if anyone has been charged for storing too much ammo, but it is good that they will now have some concrete criteria. The "Current Storage Limit – “a reasonable quantity” (reasonable is up to the Judge)" is too vague. We all know the notion of 'what is reasonable' can be drastically different from individual to individual.
You just completely contradicted yourself within three paragraphs. First you say NEQ is an exact weight, then you say it's an average because charge weights are different. Isn't that essentially what I stated a few posts ago?
That's why anytime we ship explosives the NEQ gets calculated as a percentage of the gross weight, including the box it's in. Sounds like we're arguing semantics for the most part here.
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He may have been referring to the specific examples he gave for 5.56 and 7.62. I used to deal with flares and other DG's and NEQ did vary by shipment from the manufacturer on any given item , we had a general NEQ that we used for each item for simplicity (an average) but each different Lot had a slightly different NEQ and it (our average) had to be updated to stay within the requirements.
Being new to firearms, The last thing I want, is to lose my license & guns.. So the best way to not lose it, is ask questions.
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
looks like I'm short of the limit by at least 150kg NEQ
time to buy a few more crates....
oh and I believe that its 225kg NEQ / location...... so if you have a cottage your good for a lot more.
I don't know if your detached garage is far enough from your house to qualify as a seperate location.
time to buy a few more crates....
oh and I believe that its 225kg NEQ / location...... so if you have a cottage your good for a lot more.
I don't know if your detached garage is far enough from your house to qualify as a seperate location.
I MAY HAVE A PASSING KNOWLEDGE IN THE EXPLOSIVES INDUSTRY AS WELL. BELOW IS A NATO DATA CARD.
although this did not transfer well, being in the industry, I am sure you can read it. The data I reference is for box weight. Box contains 5100 .22LR cartridges
The overall weight of the box, including the wooden box is 28kg, the NEQ per box is .918kg. I'll give you 5kg for the box and the ammo cans. Leaving 23kg for brass. That's one hell of a 10% deal. Seems like the difference is way over 25 times less explosive or 2500%. Nice try.
NATO STOCK NUMBER:
1305-00-305-0902
PACK DATAALLET DATA:STORAGE:TRANSPORT:NEQ/BOX:AIC:
ALLET DATA:STORAGE:TRANSPORT:NEQ/BOX:AIC:A086 LOG SERIAL: 0010
NOMENCLATURE
Cartridge Calibre .22 Ball Long Rifle
PACK DETAILS:
50/Ctn,10 Ctn/Crdbd Box,5 Box+50 Ctg/M2A1, 2 M2A1/Wrbnd Box
UN NO:
0012 HAZARD CLASS: 1.4 COMP CODE: S MACC: Rest SSC CODE: ORD
SUPPL. FIRE SYMBOL: SUBSIDIARY RISK: EX NO:
1988000765
PROPER SHIPPING NAME:
CARTRIDGES FOR WEAPONS, INERT PROJECTILE or CARTRI
NEQ/EACH:
0.00018 0.918 NEQ/PALLET: 33.048
NEQ/EACH:
0.00018
NEQ/BOX: 0.918 NEQ/PALLET: 33.048
QTY/BOX
5100 WT(KG): 28 VOL(M3): 0.026 DIM.(CM): 37.8x32.4x21.3
BOX/PAL:
36 WT(KG): 1060 VOL(M3): 1.09 DIM.(M): 1.31x1.11x0.75
B-2Need another?
Just to throw one more wrench into this topic:
Local municipal planing bylaws set out what type of buildings can be where with zoning regulations, Building codes set the requirement for construction of the building being used, and fire codes set regulations for the ongoing use and operation of such a facility.
So let's say if one stacks ammo up to the rafters in their detached garage, that garage goes up in a ball of flame and creates neighbouring damage - you may be within NRCAN's limits, but you may not be out of hot water with the others...
basically the short answer to this is more than any one individual is likely to be able to afford to buy, and more than they possibly could store unless they rented space
and yes, that is a challenge to all you gunnutz out there
and yes, that is a challenge to all you gunnutz out there
Bingo, it would be nice if the government would just F--- off and stop trying to put regulations around everything.
Having ammo is no more dangerous than storing wood/ wood products and far less dangerous than gas or diesel. Should be no limit to the amount you can possess.
Are you actually industry or some military know-it-all? Give a grunt a hand grenade and he immediately proclaims himself an explosives "expert" and is in the "industry".
NEQ applies to a lot more than just ammunition, so yes, please show me similar data for a case each of an Orica cast RDX booster, a Vulcan consumer cake, a Zaragozana commercial shell, a Pains Wessex pararocket flare, and MJG J-Tek10 matches.
If exact NEQ is known then it is an absolute. If exact NEQ is NOT known it is calculated as a percentage based on the classification of the article. Since most folks don't know exactly what the charge weights are in all of the ammunition they own, a percentage is a reasonable calculation.
But I'm sure you'll rage-search through Google for the next few hours trying to look the hero and show otherwise, and if that's the most productive use of your time feel free.
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AK, I know for a fact that Army Cat is an Ammunition Technician in the CAF and I'm betting Rookie Wildcat is also. You probably don't move a sliver of tonnage that they do every year. The CF has a big book called "Logistical Data" which states the NEQ of each item that is a standard item of munitions in the Canadian Armed Forces. When the CAF ships munitions, they don't guess on the NEQ but can go to the original manufacturers data card for the EXACT information. Something that is generally never seen on "civie street". In this thread you have people with a minimum of 59 years experience in the movement of CAF munitions (34 years in my case) responding to your questions, and probably 5-8 years of that is classroom training, then you have rookie wildcat, length of service unknown.
P.S. As a matter of fact I did spend my first 7 years in the service, prior to remuster as a "grunt", 3rd Patricias to be exact, and I am proud of it.
P.S. As a matter of fact I did spend my first 7 years in the service, prior to remuster as a "grunt", 3rd Patricias to be exact, and I am proud of it.
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