How much Ammo can we legally own?

I work with ammo and explosives and NEQ is not a percentage. It is the weight on the energetic material within a piece of ammunition or explosive. It gets more complicated with larger items as there are different rules for storage and transportation and some pyrotechnic compositions can be discounted.

For small arms ammunition we use:
5.56mm NEQ = 0.00168 kg each so 225 kg = 133,928 rds
7.62mm NEQ = 0.003 kg each so 225 kg = 75,000 rds

These NEQ's are averages as propellant weight may be adjusted as different lots of propellant are used to ensure standard performance from different lots of propellant.
 
This is one of those regulations that get filed under "who gives a ####" in my brain, I'd love to know if an individual has ever been charged with possession of to much ammo.
 
09outlander said:
This is one of those regulations that get filed under "who gives a ####" in my brain, I'd love to know if an individual has ever been charged with possession of to much ammo.
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I also don't know if anyone has been charged for storing too much ammo, but it is good that they will now have some concrete criteria. The "Current Storage Limit – “a reasonable quantity” (reasonable is up to the Judge)" is too vague. We all know the notion of 'what is reasonable' can be drastically different from individual to individual.
 
armycat said:
I work with ammo and explosives and NEQ is not a percentage.

These NEQ's are averages as propellant weight may be adjusted as different lots of propellant are used to ensure standard performance from different lots of propellant.
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You just completely contradicted yourself within three paragraphs. First you say NEQ is an exact weight, then you say it's an average because charge weights are different. Isn't that essentially what I stated a few posts ago?

That's why anytime we ship explosives the NEQ gets calculated as a percentage of the gross weight, including the box it's in. Sounds like we're arguing semantics for the most part here.
 
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AK said:
You just completely contradicted yourself within three paragraphs. First you say NEQ is an exact weight, then you say it's an average because charge weights are different. Isn't that essentially what I stated a few posts ago?
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He may have been referring to the specific examples he gave for 5.56 and 7.62. I used to deal with flares and other DG's and NEQ did vary by shipment from the manufacturer on any given item , we had a general NEQ that we used for each item for simplicity (an average) but each different Lot had a slightly different NEQ and it (our average) had to be updated to stay within the requirements.
 
Seems like different aspects of the industry have differing ways of calculating NEQ based on the type and class of the product. Interesting.
 
According to the explosive act

225Kg of powder or the eqivelant of 2.8 million .22 rds or 100,000 shot shells
 
looks like I'm short of the limit by at least 150kg NEQ

time to buy a few more crates.... :)


oh and I believe that its 225kg NEQ / location...... so if you have a cottage your good for a lot more.

I don't know if your detached garage is far enough from your house to qualify as a seperate location.
 
AK said:
I work in the explosives industry. NEQ is always taken as a percentage because unless you are the manufacturer, it is impossible to tell exactly how much explosive content is in an article versus dead weight because it varies from product to product. And almost no one provides actual explosive weight for a given article. For 1.4S it is 10% of the gross weight.
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I MAY HAVE A PASSING KNOWLEDGE IN THE EXPLOSIVES INDUSTRY AS WELL. BELOW IS A NATO DATA CARD.
although this did not transfer well, being in the industry, I am sure you can read it. The data I reference is for box weight. Box contains 5100 .22LR cartridges

The overall weight of the box, including the wooden box is 28kg, the NEQ per box is .918kg. I'll give you 5kg for the box and the ammo cans. Leaving 23kg for brass. That's one hell of a 10% deal. Seems like the difference is way over 25 times less explosive or 2500%. Nice try.


NATO STOCK NUMBER:​
1305-00-305-0902​
PACK DATA:pALLET DATA:STORAGE:TRANSPORT:NEQ/BOX:AIC:​
A086 LOG SERIAL: 0010​
NOMENCLATURE​
Cartridge Calibre .22 Ball Long Rifle​
PACK DETAILS:​
50/Ctn,10 Ctn/Crdbd Box,5 Box+50 Ctg/M2A1, 2 M2A1/Wrbnd Box​
UN NO:​
0012 HAZARD CLASS: 1.4 COMP CODE: S MACC: Rest SSC CODE: ORD​
SUPPL. FIRE SYMBOL: SUBSIDIARY RISK: EX NO:​
1988000765​
PROPER SHIPPING NAME:​
CARTRIDGES FOR WEAPONS, INERT PROJECTILE or CARTRI​
NEQ/EACH:​
0.00018 0.918 NEQ/PALLET: 33.048
NEQ/EACH:​
0.00018 ​
NEQ/BOX: 0.918 NEQ/PALLET: 33.048​
QTY/BOX​
5100 WT(KG): 28 VOL(M3): 0.026 DIM.(CM): 37.8x32.4x21.3​
BOX/PAL:​
36 WT(KG): 1060 VOL(M3): 1.09 DIM.(M): 1.31x1.11x0.75​
B-2

Need another?
 
Daver_II said:
I suppose if you had proper storage... I mean.. If you had an ammo depot set at the proper distance from any other buildings... With proper fire suppression... And adhering to all required storage regs for dangerous goods.... Limitless?


I think the "limits" or proposed limits have more to do with safety of communities and firefighters I the event of a fire.

I could be wrong.
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Just to throw one more wrench into this topic:
Local municipal planing bylaws set out what type of buildings can be where with zoning regulations, Building codes set the requirement for construction of the building being used, and fire codes set regulations for the ongoing use and operation of such a facility.

So let's say if one stacks ammo up to the rafters in their detached garage, that garage goes up in a ball of flame and creates neighbouring damage - you may be within NRCAN's limits, but you may not be out of hot water with the others...
 
basically the short answer to this is more than any one individual is likely to be able to afford to buy, and more than they possibly could store unless they rented space ;)


and yes, that is a challenge to all you gunnutz out there :p
 
rookie wildcat said:
I MAY HAVE A PASSING KNOWLEDGE IN THE EXPLOSIVES INDUSTRY AS WELL. BELOW IS A NATO DATA CARD.
although this did not transfer well, being in the industry, I am sure you can read it. The data I reference is for box weight. Box contains 5100 .22LR cartridges
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Are you actually industry or some military know-it-all? Give a grunt a hand grenade and he immediately proclaims himself an explosives "expert" and is in the "industry".

NEQ applies to a lot more than just ammunition, so yes, please show me similar data for a case each of an Orica cast RDX booster, a Vulcan consumer cake, a Zaragozana commercial shell, a Pains Wessex pararocket flare, and MJG J-Tek10 matches.

If exact NEQ is known then it is an absolute. If exact NEQ is NOT known it is calculated as a percentage based on the classification of the article. Since most folks don't know exactly what the charge weights are in all of the ammunition they own, a percentage is a reasonable calculation.

But I'm sure you'll rage-search through Google for the next few hours trying to look the hero and show otherwise, and if that's the most productive use of your time feel free.
 
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AK, I know for a fact that Army Cat is an Ammunition Technician in the CAF and I'm betting Rookie Wildcat is also. You probably don't move a sliver of tonnage that they do every year. The CF has a big book called "Logistical Data" which states the NEQ of each item that is a standard item of munitions in the Canadian Armed Forces. When the CAF ships munitions, they don't guess on the NEQ but can go to the original manufacturers data card for the EXACT information. Something that is generally never seen on "civie street". In this thread you have people with a minimum of 59 years experience in the movement of CAF munitions (34 years in my case) responding to your questions, and probably 5-8 years of that is classroom training, then you have rookie wildcat, length of service unknown.



P.S. As a matter of fact I did spend my first 7 years in the service, prior to remuster as a "grunt", 3rd Patricias to be exact, and I am proud of it.
 
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