JR Cox comments on the Swiss Arms situation
- Thread starter tseheather
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Okay, please, enough of the misinformation and veiled threats.
For my part, I still stand by and have been proven correct by Swiss Arms that the rifle I reported was not built on the production line agreed to Swiss Arms and the RCMP for legal sale in Canada. In the end, there were 16 of these firearms imported that while technically built to the same specifications, were not purpose built to meet the lineage requirements for the Canadian market. In fact they predate the timeline, sometimes by decades.
This is very important and while some discount this piece of the puzzle, it is critical as it is how the current law works. Regardless of some other positions, lineage does count.
For example; do we discount the illegal activities of a drug dealer who only sells marijuana because it is technically the same and is the same specifications as legally procurable medicinal pot? Of course not.
I have documentation (that has been seen by fellow CGNers) to show CLEARLY that Swiss Arms did not know that the rifles in question that it refurbished were for Canada and that they would have refused the work if they did.
But this is a story for another day.....
Back on topic:
I want to state clearly: At no time did I or anyone involved in the initial FRT procedure mislead the RCMP.
Detailed info was provided back in 2001/02 to get these firearms approved. In fact, the initial FRT application was reviewed by 2 seperate RCMP committees before being approved.
When I brought the Swiss Arms to the RCMP, I was an infantry army guy brand new to the firearms industry. Does anyone here seriously think I had the skills, mindset or technical savvy to outsmart about a dozen trained firearms technicians? A sample was offered, but we were not asked to provide.
During this process, the RCMP also asked Swiss Arms repeatedly for information and clarifications to which it provided directly to the RCMP.
The FRT process took over 6 months with a lot of back and forth communication. KevinB's position that some lone overworked employee rubber-stamped this FRT is completely without merit. I realize KevinB was just putting forward an opinion, but somehow this has been taken a verified truth which is not correct.
The RCMP in approx 2008 once FN Sports took over distribution asked SAN for some clarifiaction again and once again, all was still good. Remember, from this point forward, I became a dealer like everyone else, getting my inventory through the official channels as supply allowed.
In 2013 I was asked for more detailed and very leading information by the RCMP to which I believe they did not think I could provided. I flew to switzerland and with the help of MD Charlton and the good people at the factory, provided very detailed responses to which the RCMP did not like the answers.
When the RCMP did not like my report in June 2013, they used government chanels to ask the Swiss authorities to verify the information. The Swiss, through INTERPOL verified and confirmed everything in their own report in August / September 2013.
But this once again did not fit into the RCMPs plans.
The SAPR FRT application still sits unanswered after over 2 years.
So they sat until they thought they could act. It is clear through all the other threads that the RCMP did not present a lot of anything other than an agenda to the Minister's office. Then they pounced in what they thought would be a simple one -two knock out with the SAN sporting rifles and the CZ858-2 out for the count.
I am sorry for my action, but probably not nearly as sorry as the RCMP are right now for beating open the hornets nest.
I realize I am the guy to hate right now. I get that.
I also realize that I walked right into the RCMPs hands and gave them an opportunity to screw us all over. I get that too and am and continue to get my lumps for this.
All I can do and have done is publicly apologize for my part. I am not standing behind some lawyer or legal speak. I wrote my apology and filmed it in about 30 minutes.
However, while I may be the target, I will never be the victim.
The RCMP have wronged me along with every lawful firearm owner and I am pissed as well.
I chose to be part of the solution. There are a lot of people making a lot of demands of me right now. Mostly financial. I hear them all, but to be honest, until we know more there is nothing for me to throw myself behind. I have spoken and continue to speak pretty much daily, directly to the NFA and the CSSA and they know both me and my commitment. Once the government lays down their hand of cards, then we can fully respond.
Until then, I will make calls, attend meetings (both in person and virtual), write letters and spread the word.
Hate me all you want, boycott me, spit at me, but please, I ask you kindly, leave my staff out of this. They are the best team of hardworking, positive, friendly sincere individuals you can find in the industry.
Normally I do not discuss where I am at any given time, but I am over in Europe right now at IWA and EnforceTac and have limited email accessibility. I am not hiding, just not office bound. All I ask is that you vent on and at me. Spouting venom at my team in my absence helps no one. Plus, typing on an ipad sucks (damn you auto-correct).
Sincerely,
JR
For my part, I still stand by and have been proven correct by Swiss Arms that the rifle I reported was not built on the production line agreed to Swiss Arms and the RCMP for legal sale in Canada. In the end, there were 16 of these firearms imported that while technically built to the same specifications, were not purpose built to meet the lineage requirements for the Canadian market. In fact they predate the timeline, sometimes by decades.
This is very important and while some discount this piece of the puzzle, it is critical as it is how the current law works. Regardless of some other positions, lineage does count.
For example; do we discount the illegal activities of a drug dealer who only sells marijuana because it is technically the same and is the same specifications as legally procurable medicinal pot? Of course not.
I have documentation (that has been seen by fellow CGNers) to show CLEARLY that Swiss Arms did not know that the rifles in question that it refurbished were for Canada and that they would have refused the work if they did.
But this is a story for another day.....
Back on topic:
I want to state clearly: At no time did I or anyone involved in the initial FRT procedure mislead the RCMP.
Detailed info was provided back in 2001/02 to get these firearms approved. In fact, the initial FRT application was reviewed by 2 seperate RCMP committees before being approved.
When I brought the Swiss Arms to the RCMP, I was an infantry army guy brand new to the firearms industry. Does anyone here seriously think I had the skills, mindset or technical savvy to outsmart about a dozen trained firearms technicians? A sample was offered, but we were not asked to provide.
During this process, the RCMP also asked Swiss Arms repeatedly for information and clarifications to which it provided directly to the RCMP.
The FRT process took over 6 months with a lot of back and forth communication. KevinB's position that some lone overworked employee rubber-stamped this FRT is completely without merit. I realize KevinB was just putting forward an opinion, but somehow this has been taken a verified truth which is not correct.
The RCMP in approx 2008 once FN Sports took over distribution asked SAN for some clarifiaction again and once again, all was still good. Remember, from this point forward, I became a dealer like everyone else, getting my inventory through the official channels as supply allowed.
In 2013 I was asked for more detailed and very leading information by the RCMP to which I believe they did not think I could provided. I flew to switzerland and with the help of MD Charlton and the good people at the factory, provided very detailed responses to which the RCMP did not like the answers.
When the RCMP did not like my report in June 2013, they used government chanels to ask the Swiss authorities to verify the information. The Swiss, through INTERPOL verified and confirmed everything in their own report in August / September 2013.
But this once again did not fit into the RCMPs plans.
The SAPR FRT application still sits unanswered after over 2 years.
So they sat until they thought they could act. It is clear through all the other threads that the RCMP did not present a lot of anything other than an agenda to the Minister's office. Then they pounced in what they thought would be a simple one -two knock out with the SAN sporting rifles and the CZ858-2 out for the count.
I am sorry for my action, but probably not nearly as sorry as the RCMP are right now for beating open the hornets nest.
I realize I am the guy to hate right now. I get that.
I also realize that I walked right into the RCMPs hands and gave them an opportunity to screw us all over. I get that too and am and continue to get my lumps for this.
All I can do and have done is publicly apologize for my part. I am not standing behind some lawyer or legal speak. I wrote my apology and filmed it in about 30 minutes.
However, while I may be the target, I will never be the victim.
The RCMP have wronged me along with every lawful firearm owner and I am pissed as well.
I chose to be part of the solution. There are a lot of people making a lot of demands of me right now. Mostly financial. I hear them all, but to be honest, until we know more there is nothing for me to throw myself behind. I have spoken and continue to speak pretty much daily, directly to the NFA and the CSSA and they know both me and my commitment. Once the government lays down their hand of cards, then we can fully respond.
Until then, I will make calls, attend meetings (both in person and virtual), write letters and spread the word.
Hate me all you want, boycott me, spit at me, but please, I ask you kindly, leave my staff out of this. They are the best team of hardworking, positive, friendly sincere individuals you can find in the industry.
Normally I do not discuss where I am at any given time, but I am over in Europe right now at IWA and EnforceTac and have limited email accessibility. I am not hiding, just not office bound. All I ask is that you vent on and at me. Spouting venom at my team in my absence helps no one. Plus, typing on an ipad sucks (damn you auto-correct).
Sincerely,
JR
A) thank you JR, A reply from you is not needed for me, but thank you. Sorry you had to even spend your time on this.
B) who in their right mind can even still think this had anything to do with TSE JR? The RCMP is working on an unknown agenda for multiple firearms they don't like. Clearly SAN rifles are a small part of this storm to which we still know very little about.
While this storm has many issues, I personally think it would have come up sooner or later, and I would prefer to get it out of the way now with a CPC majority government. They are our best chance, combined with the pressure from everyone including NFA/CSSA.
SIGNUT
B) who in their right mind can even still think this had anything to do with TSE JR? The RCMP is working on an unknown agenda for multiple firearms they don't like. Clearly SAN rifles are a small part of this storm to which we still know very little about.
While this storm has many issues, I personally think it would have come up sooner or later, and I would prefer to get it out of the way now with a CPC majority government. They are our best chance, combined with the pressure from everyone including NFA/CSSA.
SIGNUT
Yup jr you are the guy to hate right now and signut you are just another non owner you have this stupid opinion because you don't own one so stfu
Yikes
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Feedback score of zero, and an iq to match. You don't know what I have or don't have, and I'm certain you don't have what I have. Maybe you should talk to the two biggest law firms in the country (which I have been) for solutions instead of your top notch CGN "intelligence"...just a suggestion..
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With this kind of intelligence, I'll wait on baited breath for your connection between the SAN rifles, TSE JR, CZ 858, RCMP firearms hit list (which by far predates the SAN issues), RCMP providing ZERO communication, MP's alleging being lied to by the RCMP, Verifiers unit being extremely difficult to work with the last 6 months, and no doubt more to come.
......oh please don't forget to explain how as a SAN owner you will no doubt know all about the machining details they currently have proving there is no way for them to be anything but S/A. Except with your 5 minute how to and an angle grinder right?
so where did this whole process go wrong that the RCMP has now prohibited the whole swiss arms line of rifles? Above you state all information was given to them, but what was their response to that information before the complete outright ban of all swiss arms rifles?. An impass must have been reach in your communications before they would consider making criminals out of thousands of civilians and proposing one of the largest seizures of privately owned property ever.
MIRAMICHIER
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- Miramichi,Nb
Right or Wrong maybe this could be a blessing to wake up the Gun Community it has woken me up I joined NFA and are pestering my MLA.
Meh, every TSE employee I've dealt with has been snobby and has had a poor attitude, unlike my experiences at the Calgary Shooting Centre <- just my thoughts on the "my staff is hard working..."
I heard that existing owners may receive amnesty but that the prohibited status will not change - any truth to that or misinformed?
Is there any legislative changes we could support, that would have a chance, preventing other firearms to get reclassified in the same manor (or in general)?
I heard that existing owners may receive amnesty but that the prohibited status will not change - any truth to that or misinformed?
Is there any legislative changes we could support, that would have a chance, preventing other firearms to get reclassified in the same manor (or in general)?
We are all fools if we accept that. And we will not. To me, this just avoids any prosecution until this is sorted. RCMP an firearms act reform is a must. Now.
Taking accountability takes balls...
Now how do we fix this...??? That one is probably above my pay rate but I for one have a suggestion... Every gun store or business licensed to sell firearms in Canada should start a petition to send to their local MP and another petition that can pooled together to send to Mr.Harper in Ottawa....
Now how do we fix this...??? That one is probably above my pay rate but I for one have a suggestion... Every gun store or business licensed to sell firearms in Canada should start a petition to send to their local MP and another petition that can pooled together to send to Mr.Harper in Ottawa....
No matter the motivation, owning responsibility for the problem (twice now) is still a lot more difficult than denying responsibility. We have successfully established that some folks appreciate this, and some folks don't give a rats ass and still hate him. So now that we've established that, we can all move on to more constructive things...right? Because we're all unified gun owners working toward a common cause, right? Not a bunch of jackoffs fighting amongst themselves to prove whose opinions are better.......right?
No goal has ever been accomplished by spewing hate. Let's work together and start chipping away at the RCMP. This is the first time they've literally handed us a hammer and chisel to do the job with
No goal has ever been accomplished by spewing hate. Let's work together and start chipping away at the RCMP. This is the first time they've literally handed us a hammer and chisel to do the job with
The more I learn about JR, the less I want his involvement in our community.
Although he isn't responsible for the CZ chitshow, he is 100% responsible for the Swiss Arms fiasco - No ifs, ands or buts. This man, motivated by greed and low moral character is entirely responsible for the Swiss Arms situation. How any of you here can give him a pass utterly bewilders me.
Although he isn't responsible for the CZ chitshow, he is 100% responsible for the Swiss Arms fiasco - No ifs, ands or buts. This man, motivated by greed and low moral character is entirely responsible for the Swiss Arms situation. How any of you here can give him a pass utterly bewilders me.
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