Smellie. Where is this 'rural manitoba'? I plan on a road trip, just to get away this summer. I am central Ontario, no road plan yet.
What is the "Military Surplus" forum for?
- Thread starter mr.e moose
- Start date
Pretty much the whole province, except for a few spots that are all paved over and fairly well ruined.
And...before the Manitoba nutz get all riled up, I will add that I think Manitoba is a nice province. I love to go over there and tour around, especially in the Northwest.
I belive a milsurp is a milsurp regardless of what has been done to it. I don't like people butchering full military rifles but as has been said, if already past the point of no return, do something nice to it. I am right now working on a Ross 1910 that was badly cut down and sportered. It would take a new barrel, furniture, sights etc to bring it back. I am making it into a very nice and tastefull sporter that hopefully the old Ross people would have been pleased with. I like to see beat up old milsurps have a second and prolonged life.
I don't think there is any place for snobbery on a milsurp forum, personally. I recently commented on another forum when the OP asked for a valuation on a 1908 Brazilian Mauser with a mismatched bolt, missing band spring and missing cleaning rod. I replied that his Brazilian was mis-matched and incomplete and right or wrong South American mausers (the more common ones) only commanded top dollar if matching and minty. I mentioned that the pre WW1 Oberndorf action was highly desirable as a platform for a sporter and he could part it out and get a better financial return by doing so. One of the forum members took offense and suggested "I didn't belong on the forum" as I had the temerity to suggest parting out the mauser. I am not really a purist, I guess but fail to see where I crossed the line.
I'm going to add my input as well, though I admit I do it too often and probably annoy others by doing so.
I don't have a problem with price checks in the milsurp section. If the gun in question is a milsurp then it makes absolute sense. If the person is up front about the fact they'd like to sell but don't know what to list at, why not?? They'll get a consensus and an answer and you'll know a reasonable price for that firearm and why the price is the way it is - everyone benefits and lots of new milsurp enthusiasts will learn something.
I don't have a problem with price checks in the milsurp section. If the gun in question is a milsurp then it makes absolute sense. If the person is up front about the fact they'd like to sell but don't know what to list at, why not?? They'll get a consensus and an answer and you'll know a reasonable price for that firearm and why the price is the way it is - everyone benefits and lots of new milsurp enthusiasts will learn something.
H WALLY:
I don't have trouble with it myself, just so long as they are honest about it.
"(2 nice pictures plus action close-up) I have this old rifle and I want to sell it. Can you give me an idea as to its current value?"
That's okay. Guys can answer if they want to, even if I generally do not. That's no loss; I am generally not up on 'values' anyway. But it is HONEST.
The ones that gripe me are........
"This rifle was my great-grandfather's prized possession which has come down to me and I really love it and I want to find out all about it and........"
AND YOU FIND THE DAMNED THING IN THE EE WHILE THEY ARE STILL POSTING IN AND MILKING YOU FOR ALL THE INFORMATION THEY CAN GET....... AND USING THE INFORMATION YOU ARE GIVING THEM TO MAKE THEIR AD SOUND BETTER.
That is not honest at all. That's sneaky..... and I don't like "sneaky". And it is USING people. I try never to USE people and I definitely do not like being USED myself.
That is MY quibble, anyway.
It's not so much WHAT is done, as HOW it is done. Think of it like a Poker game: winning with honest cards, as opposed to winning by dealing off the bottom of the deck.
I don't have trouble with it myself, just so long as they are honest about it.
"(2 nice pictures plus action close-up) I have this old rifle and I want to sell it. Can you give me an idea as to its current value?"
That's okay. Guys can answer if they want to, even if I generally do not. That's no loss; I am generally not up on 'values' anyway. But it is HONEST.
The ones that gripe me are........
"This rifle was my great-grandfather's prized possession which has come down to me and I really love it and I want to find out all about it and........"
AND YOU FIND THE DAMNED THING IN THE EE WHILE THEY ARE STILL POSTING IN AND MILKING YOU FOR ALL THE INFORMATION THEY CAN GET....... AND USING THE INFORMATION YOU ARE GIVING THEM TO MAKE THEIR AD SOUND BETTER.
That is not honest at all. That's sneaky..... and I don't like "sneaky". And it is USING people. I try never to USE people and I definitely do not like being USED myself.
That is MY quibble, anyway.
It's not so much WHAT is done, as HOW it is done. Think of it like a Poker game: winning with honest cards, as opposed to winning by dealing off the bottom of the deck.
Pretty much the whole province, except for a few spots that are all paved over and fairly well ruined.
And...before the Manitoba nutz get all riled up, I will add that I think Manitoba is a nice province. I love to go over there and tour around, especially in the Northwest.
Nothing wrong with that comment, as someone who moved from one of the nice areas into one of the areas you refer to I agree completely.
Hi Smellie - yep, we're in the same boat then. I've never really noticed whether or not they specifically say they're going to sell or not... but usually their prices are too high for me anyways
As usual a good post in any event.
As usual a good post in any event.
I think the word "sneaky" sums up why many of us got pissy over the thread in question.
So I'm on the EE this morning and I find an add for what to me looks like the same rifle but this time it's listed as unfired and un issued?? and it's now $350 more the before?
Am I loosing my mind?
So I'm on the EE this morning and I find an add for what to me looks like the same rifle but this time it's listed as unfired and un issued?? and it's now $350 more the before?
Am I loosing my mind?
Not the same rifle. I saw a similar rifle to the one in the ee now at a gun show selling for $750 but that is too steep for my budget at the moment.
Steve, you lost your mind the first time you met SMELLIE and myself! And every time you give an indication of figuring things out, we pull another rabbit out of the hat, and you go back home with a dazed look on your face.
But, then again, you are interested in the Milsurps and shooting them, and when you do go home, you try the things we have shown or told you to see for yourself. It is always a pleasure to share some coffee, knowledge, shooting and general BS with you and the rest of your mob.
One of the thing that was briefly touched on in a previous post on this thread was unrealistic evaluations. There seems to be people here who quote a value that is way above the market values of a firearm. Perhaps they do it for amusement or to troll a bit, but by giving out an unrealistic price, it does not do anything to contribute to this forum. One of the factors that I go by myself, is "What would I pay ---right now--- for this firearm if it was offered to me? Just what is it worth to me?" Maybe we should have a Rule that if anyone gives out a value, then the person who asked the question, if he is forthcoming in the fact that he is selling the rifle, can then hold the guy that gave out a quoted value on the firearm accountable and we can consider the firearm sold to the guy who gave out the value. LOL.
SMELLIE's views and mine coincide.
This is a tricky business. I occasionally sell bits and pieces for #1 Mk3 rifles. But being a total newbie, I usually stress a bit about what is a fair price to ask. I have sold a bit of wood for what is probably too little. And a few screws and things for what might be a little too much. But I don't really know.
My main motivation for selling is that some guy out there is trying to restore a once beautiful rifle that has been languishing is sporterized shame. I know how good it makes me feel to look at mine, remembering what it looked like when I started.
So I guess the best thing to do is just list things to sell, and work out a deal man to man. And if I wanted advice on what to ask for something, I already know of a couple of guys here that I could PM to ask their opinion.
Thanks for clearing that up
All I know is it seems that if you are a collector and have an appreciation for these guns then they seem to find you and at lower then market value prices.
That's how it seems to happen with me anyway.
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
i`ve been looking for parts for about 2 months and i checked around before i bought the parts from you that i did. i thought your metal prices were good and quite fair in comparison. and in decent shape.
Price checks are fine.
What Smellie and Buffdog were getting at is they'll help anybody who is interested in Milsurps and will feed them great info without hesitation. BUT they hate being played for a fool by someone who is pretending to be excited about their newest addition and is truly looking for info to try and make a quick buck on the EE
For those of us weirdos who are Milsurp collectors we respect these guns as a piece of history and therefore we don't like to pimp them out for money.
I'd rather give a gun away free to a good member of this forum then make oodles of money off of it on the EE. Where my guns are going is way more important then how much money am I making off of them.
As Buffdog has said I've lost my mind!!
alright I know I'm the newbie here but I see this often on other forums.
1. it's a C&R forum, it's where the enthuisiasts hang out and where the experts lurk. if a person needs info about a enfield number 4, the guys here are going to know the most about it, not the guys in the sporting rifle forums that are just used to your everyday remington 700s and winchester m70s. it is irrelevant what they intend to do with the rifle, it's irrelevant what they intend to do to it, this is where the people hang out that know about these old model military rifles.
2. it's their property and nobody except them gets to decide what they do to it. economics is not the only reason to sporterize or modify. some people just like projects, everybody and their dog can build a remington 700 into a custom rifle but nowadays there are not a lot of people that own a DECENTLY modified rifle. yes there are tons that have been cut up and hacked and drilled but there are not a lot of well done sporters and I really don't mind those as much. I have seen some beautiful arisaka sporters and I was deeply tempted to buy one of them last weekend but decided not to because it was a wildcat caliber.
don't get wrong. I hate to see them modified. I have been looking for a model 1917 for the last 3 years and every single one I've seen in person, save 2 have been sporterized so as a collector I hate that so few remain but I will not belittle anyone that owns one that wants to modify theirs... I may tell them why I think they shouldn't do it and maybe even offer to buy it so that they do go get themselves something more fitting to a project gun but I will never tell another person what they can and can't do with their property.
1. it's a C&R forum, it's where the enthuisiasts hang out and where the experts lurk. if a person needs info about a enfield number 4, the guys here are going to know the most about it, not the guys in the sporting rifle forums that are just used to your everyday remington 700s and winchester m70s. it is irrelevant what they intend to do with the rifle, it's irrelevant what they intend to do to it, this is where the people hang out that know about these old model military rifles.
2. it's their property and nobody except them gets to decide what they do to it. economics is not the only reason to sporterize or modify. some people just like projects, everybody and their dog can build a remington 700 into a custom rifle but nowadays there are not a lot of people that own a DECENTLY modified rifle. yes there are tons that have been cut up and hacked and drilled but there are not a lot of well done sporters and I really don't mind those as much. I have seen some beautiful arisaka sporters and I was deeply tempted to buy one of them last weekend but decided not to because it was a wildcat caliber.
don't get wrong. I hate to see them modified. I have been looking for a model 1917 for the last 3 years and every single one I've seen in person, save 2 have been sporterized so as a collector I hate that so few remain but I will not belittle anyone that owns one that wants to modify theirs... I may tell them why I think they shouldn't do it and maybe even offer to buy it so that they do go get themselves something more fitting to a project gun but I will never tell another person what they can and can't do with their property.
Welcome to the forums!!
This "it's my property" conversation is something that has been going on forever here!! It's nothing new!
There's 2 groups that use these forums.
The first group of collectors is the "this rifle is mine so I'll cut it or refinish it and that's that"
The second is the group that many of us come from. You see my grandfather carried a lee enfield in WW2, his father carried a lee enfield in WW1. So to me these rifles are treasured part of my families history and a reminder of the sacrifice that my family members made. Every rifle I have was carried buy somebody who may have died in battle. I honor them by learning about their history and teaching it to others.
These guns shaped history so to me they are way more important then any of my hunting rigs. I preserve my guns so that the next generation can enjoy them as I have. My oldest Milsurp is an 1861 snider enfield and my newest a 1955 Sks. Most of my rifles haven't been made in at least 60 years so there will never be more as time goes, there will only be less.
If 25% of the surplus rifles are cut up, abused and worn out with each new generation then eventually their will be no tangible reminders of humanities bloody past which to me would be a real shame.
Just my thoughts, and like I mentioned before I've lost my mind!
