Reloading for precision shooting

[Ian Robertson]

At 200 it probably doesn't matter much if you throw them, the BR guys throw them for short range and there measures are no better than any. Ball powder will throw very accurately. The balance scales you can buy for reloading are not as good as the electronic ones sold for the same purpose, according to my scale which will weigh to 1mg.

To start another battle, you should use the best measure you can buy, the Lee "Perfect Powder Measure" for about $35. I also see that some of the Lee patents must have run out since Lyman is starting to knock off some of the Lee tools.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I've read a million pages and watched a thousand youtube videos in regards to reloading. My question now is about the equipment it self.

So my understanding is precision guys don't trust any self powder filling unit? So are all of you using a single stage press? And then weighing every single bullets powder etc? Are there any self filling ones that guys trust?

In terms of dies, are all dies created equal? Or will some not produce as accurate rounds? Same goes for presses?

Thanks.

I'm going to be selling off my Robinson xcr to get into reloading. As soon as the EE allows me in I'll be listing it. Then buying my whole reloading set up. Any help and guide in terms of best things to buy is appreciated.

For me:

Lee breech lock challenger press
Lee collet neck dies
Redding body die
Forster seater

Forster trimmer and outside neck turner - this can be mechanised to process buckets of brass I need for F class

Deburr tools and cleaning stuff... I use a tumbler and walnut shells

Gempro 250, powder measure or scoop to get close. Trickle to final weight. There are no scales offered by any reloading brand that will do the job to my satisfaction - digital or balance beam.

Auto dispensers can get you close but for the cost, a lee plastic scoop does the same thing and is way faster.

Neck prep is ultra important, next to powder charge. I outside neck turn and anneal regularly - as in every 1 or 2 firings.

If you are going to anneal, invest in a good tool. Better to not do it and toss the cases then do it poorly and create more problems. Bench Source for me and well worth the investment.

Check runout at every stage of your reloading to ensure you are not inducing any problems into your ammo. As long as the dies work, couldn't care on the brand or style. Use what makes the ammo fit the needs of the rifle. I use dies from pretty much all brands and styles at some point for various rifles.

Ultra sonic cleaning cleans the necks TOO much. This can cause very high neck friction - but that is something for you to determine for your needs and rifle.

Articles on load tuning and set up on my website in the TECH section.

Jerry

 

[Mystic Precision]

But does it make a difference at 200 yards?

Depending on the size of case and bullet, it makes a huge difference.

I test at 250yds and can see variations on target as little as 0.1gr of powder in my 308 and 223.

BUT you need accurate rifles, optics and shooting to see these variations. Most F class shooters are going to do very large sample sizes to confirm anything they use in competition.

some will say 5 rds groups, others 10rds, many F'ers say 22rds. Just depends on the game and the needs of that sport.

The best way to prove for yourself is to do your own testing on a calm day. give yourself the most stable set up you can with the highest mag scope you can mount. Limit your aiming error to itty bitty, then test.

Once you remove YOU from the equation, an accurate rifle WILL tell you what it likes and wants AND the tuning will be repeatable.

That is really our goal in precision loading... dead on all the time, everytime.

Jerry

 

[Bonemaker]

Thanks Jerry - that's an awesome contribution.

 

[WG300]

I would not for a second believe anything about sonic cleaners damaging brass without some serious, multiple tests and checking the setup of the poster who described the problem. It sounds to me like either crappy brass or the wrong cleaning solution. Ultrasonic cleaning is awesome and less damaging to brass then a polishing tumbler.

you are wright, in my case, you can be sure i dont know what i'm doing, that i'm a stupid ass that shoot a motomaster barrel....!!

 

[WG300]

as for Gempro 250, they seems to be accurate but from what i heard, painfull to use with zero shifting all the time. A friend of mine just bought a A&D FX-120i ans he is more that satisfied with the scale. The test he's done showing great stability over 48 hours with repeatability at 0.04gr. For 575.00$ at ###, it seems like a good mid-range price electronic scale.

 

[Fire306]

Jerry, do you know a Canadian supplier of the Bench Source Annealling setup?

 

[WG300]

Bench source is shipping in Canada, had mine to the door.

 

[CyaN1de]

as for Gempro 250, they seems to be accurate but from what i heard, painfull to use with zero shifting all the time. A friend of mine just bought a A&D FX-120i ans he is more that satisfied with the scale. The test he's done showing great stability over 48 hours with repeatability at 0.04gr. For 575.00$ at ###, it seems like a good mid-range price electronic scale.

Way less than that at Cambridge....$400

Got mine from them and love it.

 

[SND]

I'm very happy with my FX120i as well, although they did go up in price, kinda wish I'd bought 2 or 3 at $400. I think its 525+tax/ship now. Still better their the US pricing oddly enough.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Jerry, do you know a Canadian supplier of the Bench Source Annealling setup?

I can offer them. A growing list of stuff that I have no time to put on my website... hopefully, when I hire some help.

Gempro definitely has its quirks but the lowest price quality scale that will give you 0.02gr accuracy. I use a power insulator to keep drift much lower but it will. You just learn to work with its quirks and away you go.

Certainly a FX120i is a better scale. And if you have the budget, go for it. Certainly a situation where you get more when spending more. Very good investment.

As many very experienced shooters have indicated, don't assume brand X or super priced Y is the best of anything. There is stuff that works, some that doesn't. Measure and track everything you do and use what gives you the performance you want.

I just put together a tactical style rifle with a tight chamber spec. The best die for sizing the case is a modified RCBS FL sizer from a dirt cheap 2 die set I got many years back. All I had to do was open the neck and turn it into a FL body die (no expander rod). The dimensions just matched up to have a custom fit... certainly wasn't planned, but I had the die so checked and voila... perfect fit.

Those cases get neck sized with the Lee collet die.

Enjoy the journey...

Jerry

 

[Fire306]

Bench source is shipping in Canada, had mine to the door.

What are they worth? Didn't see the price on their website.

 

[BadAsMo]

RCBS Chargemaster to throw the initial powder and an A&D Electronic scale to keep my charges to within .02grn (Yes....that's .02gr)

x2
For short range, the accuracy of the powder charge does not mean very much, but at long range, it means everything. I traded away my chargemaster though and picked up a set of Lee Powder Spoons - They are just about as accurate as the chargemaster (hint of sarcasm) but much faster.

I spend my time tweaking the load on a 3 decimal place scale, but in affordable terms a .02 gr scale is just fine for most. You can find some real affordable .02 grain scales out there if you look around for less than the price of a chargemaster.

You gotta understand that real world no BS accuracy of the scale is the key to loading for long range.

You might also want to pick up one of the Omega powder ticklers, they're great.

 

[WG300]

they were selling for 550.00$ when i bought it 2 years ago. Been annealing close to 10 000 rounds in it and still work as new !! One thing that need to be optimized for a annealing machine is flame regularity. Its better to come out of 1 bottle, have a pressure regulator, a filter, a valve and then split with equal lenght of tubing from one burner to the other. Then you will be able to stabilize the flame and get more constant annealing.

i heard Jerry can get a good price for them as well.

 

[Mudduck]

To start another battle, you should use the best measure you can buy, the Lee "Perfect Powder Measure" for about $35.

Ian - Would you say this unit is more accurate then the RCBS basic unit?

 

[Ian Robertson]

In my comparisons the Lee is the best there is. In a perfect world we would only need ball powder and I would only use a Lee measure.

 

[caustic]

apparently the god of powder dispensers.for the hyper anal reloader

 

[cet]

I have to agree with the Lee Powder Measure.
I use mine to pour directly into a container on a Sartorious ELT 103/5 and then trickle the last few granules of powder.

As far as digital scales are concerned, I work on them almost daily (medical use). Get yourself a decent digital with auto-zero.
Preferably programmable, so you can change the sensitivity, stability, linearization, etc.
Most scales at the $4/500 range use strain gauges. The drift is controlled by the motherboard, most use a transformer to isolate the power input, if you're still getting drift, a power filter will not help unless you know the exact frequency that's causing it.

Keep the scale at the same temperature, use a shield around the platten, watch static, keep air movement to a minimum.
Mine will drift once in a while, but returns to zero given a few seconds.
When I got mine, it was a 105 and read .001 grains (not grams), it drove me crazy. Had to change the board to a 103 and drop resolution to .01 grains. I can drop a measure, stabilize, trickle, and dump in the case in about 15 seconds.
The time it takes me to dump it in the case is the time required to go back to tare and ready for another.
Digital scales get a bad name because of all the cheap crap beeing sold for 300% markup.

Have a look at these balances, good quality, read in grains and well priced !!!!

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