Flint Rifle....Round Ball and or R.E.A.L.(Big) Boolit?

Skinny 1950

Skinny 1950

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I recently bought an Interarms Hawken style .54 cal. rifle from the EE along with a bunch of other goodies (except the leather).
It came with some swedged .535" RB's and a Lee double mould/mold (SKU 90400) which should produce a REAL boolit weighing in at 380 grains.
I have included a couple of pictures so that you can see what I have to work with:













I had the rifle out at the range and it shot great using the round balls with the patches (in picture) from what I have been able to glean from the web the twist rate is 1:48.
I don't have a mold for the RB's so next time out I want to try the boolits, I was using 70 grains FFG Goex with 4F in the pan which worked well, I am wondering what sort of charge would be good to start with using the 60% heavier boolit??
I am also not sure if I should use a wad under the boolit or just ram it in on top of the powder??
Feel free to discuss the casting flaws evident in the picture I am all ears.

I hope the seller doesn't mind me using his picture of the rifle...I just had to show it off:runaway:
 
I have the same gun, it shoots RB and Conicals quite well for me. I have tried REAL, and the TC style and Mini style, all with good success. I shoot them with 90 gr 3F and use 4F in the pan.
 
I am unfamiliar with that particular rifle, or for that matter, flint locks in general, but I suspect that it will have slow twist rifling, maybe 1 turn in 60 inches, or similar, which is appropriate for stabilising a round ball. I am also unfamiliar with mini balls, but in general, conical bullets require faster twist rifling to stabilise. The longer the bullet, the faster the twist required. It is possible that it has a medium twist, for example 1/48, which will in theory handle both. My TC Renegade is like that, and ends up being neither fish nor foul, shooting mediocre groups of both round ball, and conical bullets, but neither one spectacularly. I guess you need to try both, and I would suggest that you measure the twist rate, with a tight fitting patch on your cleaning jag, and measure how many inches it takes to make one revolution.
As for the imperfections on your cast bullets, my guess would be that your lead, or your mould, is not hot enough. Read up on the art of casting bullets. There is a surprising amount to learn before you get perfect, evenly weighted bullets, but it is very do-able, and satisfying.
If you are new to muzzle loading, I would suggest you check out http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/ The guy publishes a little book that is well worth the $20, or whatever he charges, although he gives you quite a bit of the info for free on the website. It did wonders for my round ball shooting ability.
Good luck, and have fun!
Glen
 
REAL bullets are Rifling Engraved At Loading. The lands of the barrel engrave the bullet as it is being run down the bore on top of the powder.

Considering that the powder is supposed to smack the bullet on its base in order to help it to upset and shoot accurately, I think I would leave out any wad. That way you will have the shock wave from the burn of the powder directly against the rear face of the bullet.
 
I'm sure you are aware that only 100% lead should be used with your R.E.A.L. mould. Wheel weights and the like are too hard resulting it difficulties cutting rifling into the boolit on loading and also doing damage to the rifling on the way out when fired. Or so I've been told.
 
plinker 777 said:
I'm sure you are aware that only 100% lead should be used with your R.E.A.L. mould. Wheel weights and the like are too hard resulting it difficulties cutting rifling into the boolit on loading and also doing damage to the rifling on the way out when fired. Or so I've been told.
Click to expand...

Definitely heed this. I had some TC's given to me that were made with wheel weights and they were almost impossible to load. Pure lead is the way to go with any style conical , a patched RB is no problem with wheel Weights..
 
The over-powder wad serves two purposes. Firstly, it protects the base of the bullet from damage or distortion caused by the heat and pressure of the powder burning. Secondly, most competitive long range muzzleloader shooters seat a wad gently against the powder charge, then swab the bore, before loading the bullet. You will find that even after one or two shots the fouling in the bore will make it difficult or impossible to seat the bullet properly. As was mentioned above, pure lead is the proper alloy for these, and if you have to get too rough ramming them in, you will severely damage the nose, causing them to fly poorly. I question the logic of a soft lead bullet with no lube or jacket, as I would think that it would cause lead deposits in your bore. I shoot either paper jacketed or lubed bullets in my Pedersoli Gibbs to prevent this. As for powder charge, I would approach this a bit carefully. The heavier bullet will certainly build more pressure, and on my Gibbs, if the hole in the nipple is a bit worn, it will blow back enough to blow the hammer back to half ####. The discharge of gas and fire can be quite impressive. But of course that is with a 535 grain bullet, so YMMV.
Glen
 
Easyrider said:
The over-powder wad serves two purposes. Firstly, it protects the base of the bullet from damage or distortion caused by the heat and pressure of the powder burning. Secondly, most competitive long range muzzleloader shooters seat a wad gently against the powder charge, then swab the bore, before loading the bullet. You will find that even after one or two shots the fouling in the bore will make it difficult or impossible to seat the bullet properly. As was mentioned above, pure lead is the proper alloy for these, and if you have to get too rough ramming them in, you will severely damage the nose, causing them to fly poorly. I question the logic of a soft lead bullet with no lube or jacket, as I would think that it would cause lead deposits in your bore. I shoot either paper jacketed or lubed bullets in my Pedersoli Gibbs to prevent this. As for powder charge, I would approach this a bit carefully. The heavier bullet will certainly build more pressure, and on my Gibbs, if the hole in the nipple is a bit worn, it will blow back enough to blow the hammer back to half ####. The discharge of gas and fire can be quite impressive. But of course that is with a 535 grain bullet, so YMMV.
Glen
Click to expand...
I agree totally as well.
Base wad, and a lubed bullet!:>)
I prefer to shoot all my guns with round ball these days, but have owned a few very accurate rifles that were designed for bullets, one had a Hauck gain twist in .54 and the other IIRC was a fast twist Green Mountain barrel in .50
I used REAL bullets in both with great accuracy
Cat
 
It was Black Powder Day up at the range on Sunday so I took the .54 rifle and the .45 cal. pistol ( Didn't get around to shooting the pistol ) using the round balls and a lubed patch proved to be quite accurate even out to 100 meters. Trying to keep up with the course of fire using the round balls/patch was a bit of a challenge and it was only near the end of the day that I tried the Boolits. I only managed to get 3 shots off using 70 grains of 2F Goex..no wad, the boolit dropped into the bore all the way up to the last band and it was easy to ram all the way down. Maybe a bit too easy so I am thinking that maybe the casting needs some work to bring them up in size a bit.
The accuracy using these large "slugs" is really impressive, got two in the black at 100 meters and the other on paper,they also punch a really clean round hole in the paper. :runaway:
I was sitting at a bench mind you but still I didn't think my eyes were good enough to hit anything at 100 meters...this is very encouraging.
The muzzle of the rifle is NOT touching the ground in this photo but it sure looks like it:

 
That's the way those REAL load. The top band grabs on the way down and the others are expanded on the way out. Make sure you lube them up good.
 
U can try 90 to 100 grains of 2F or 3F or even 110 grains with the real boolet. Do not try this with Trip 7 in 3f unless U cut your charge back 15% The later will be more energetic than the 2F. The recoil will be formidable so be prepared. Not for the recoil shy. Pay attention to your hammer after U touch er off. If it blows back to half #### after installing a new nipple cut your charge back a bit. At 100 grains of holy black your rifle will not be fun to shoot but it sure as heck will take an elk or moose at over 100 meters. The first couple of shots wont bother U until U have fired 7 or 10 rounds, then your shoulder will be very sore and black and blue. Start out with smaller charges and work up. what ever charge is more accurate is of course the one to use.
I shoot 100 grains of holy black with a 465 grain great plains bullet in my Lyman Great Plains Hunter cap lock. The twist is 1-32 the rifle is more accurate than I am at 100 meters. I would shoot a heaver charge but it just hurts too much. This 54 caliber knocks the steel gong target over with every shot unless I steak it down with long spikes into the dirt. My 375 H&H with a 300 grain bullet does not even do this. Have fun my son.
 
Skinny 1950 said:
It was Black Powder Day up at the range on Sunday so I took the .54 rifle and the .45 cal. pistol ( Didn't get around to shooting the pistol ) using the round balls and a lubed patch proved to be quite accurate even out to 100 meters. Trying to keep up with the course of fire using the round balls/patch was a bit of a challenge and it was only near the end of the day that I tried the Boolits. I only managed to get 3 shots off using 70 grains of 2F Goex..no wad, the boolit dropped into the bore all the way up to the last band and it was easy to ram all the way down. Maybe a bit too easy so I am thinking that maybe the casting needs some work to bring them up in size a bit.
The accuracy using these large "slugs" is really impressive, got two in the black at 100 meters and the other on paper,they also punch a really clean round hole in the paper. :runaway:
I was sitting at a bench mind you but still I didn't think my eyes were good enough to hit anything at 100 meters...this is very encouraging.
The muzzle of the rifle is NOT touching the ground in this photo but it sure looks like it:

Click to expand...
Now for them reals dropping down the barrel like you said. That can be dangerous as hell and does nothing for your accuracy. It is dangerous because yur bullet can move off the powder charge and act like an obstruction in the barrel when U touch it off. This can blow up your gun and injure or possibly kill you. Heres whatcha do. Make them reals into paperpatch bullets. take any copy paper or typing paper 20lb and paper patch em. Look it up on the web for how to do this. With a paper patch bullet U do not need to lube em and U will get a tight gas seal and you will have to use your ramrod to get em down on the charge. The accuracy will be tremendous especially if you use a lubed felt or wool over powder wad. Yur accuracy can go up by 500%. It is good that this bullet requires paperpatching. In a way you are lucky that the diameter of the cast bullet is under speck so U can have the opportunity to paperpatch.
 
Skinny 1950 said:
It was Black Powder Day up at the range on Sunday so I took the .54 rifle and the .45 cal. pistol ( Didn't get around to shooting the pistol ) using the round balls and a lubed patch proved to be quite accurate even out to 100 meters. Trying to keep up with the course of fire using the round balls/patch was a bit of a challenge and it was only near the end of the day that I tried the Boolits. I only managed to get 3 shots off using 70 grains of 2F Goex..no wad, the boolit dropped into the bore all the way up to the last band and it was easy to ram all the way down. Maybe a bit too easy so I am thinking that maybe the casting needs some work to bring them up in size a bit.
The accuracy using these large "slugs" is really impressive, got two in the black at 100 meters and the other on paper,they also punch a really clean round hole in the paper. :runaway:
I was sitting at a bench mind you but still I didn't think my eyes were good enough to hit anything at 100 meters...this is very encouraging.
The muzzle of the rifle is NOT touching the ground in this photo but it sure looks like it:

Click to expand...
Now for them reals dropping down the barrel like you said. That can be dangerous as hell and does nothing for your accuracy. It is dangerous because yur bullet can move off the powder charge and act like an obstruction in the barrel when U touch it off. This can blow up your gun and injure or possibly kill you. Heres whatcha do. Make them reals into paperpatch bullets. take any copy paper or typing paper 20lb and paper patch em. Look it up on the web for how to do this. With a paper patch bullet U do not need to lube em and U will get a tight gas seal and you will have to use your ramrod to get em down on the charge. The accuracy will be tremendous especially if you use a lubed felt or wool over powder wad. Yur accuracy can go up by 500%. It is good that this bullet requires paperpatching. In a way you are lucky that the diameter of the cast bullet is under speck so U can have the opportunity to paperpatch.
 
In my case the 1:60 twist meant for RB, was pretty dismal for the REAL bullets given to me for my caplock rifle.

Of course compared to most BP shooters I'm newer to this sport.
It took me a bit of head scratching just to find the correct diameter of RB for my new-to-me rifle.
There are some fine rifles here! For myself only, I'll just keep the reproduction blunderbuss as my one and only flinter.

lol
 
With respect to cleaning the bore after every shot, I found that using the powder version of Pyrodex and Triple 7 made a huge difference in my .50 T/C Hawken. I certainly did not need to swab or clean after each shot. I used both round ball and Buffalo Bullet's 410gr conical.
 
Depends on what you are shooting for. Most loads of 50/54 cal round ball are insufficient for big game. Indeed, in test only 120 grains of Powder with 200 grain round ball fire from a 28 inch 1:48 twist barrel achieved acceptable foot pounds to kill deer humanely at 50 meters. Round Ball is great for punching paper especially with light target loads.
 
fraserdw said:
Depends on what you are shooting for. Most loads of 50/54 cal round ball are insufficient for big game. Indeed, in test only 120 grains of Powder with 200 grain round ball fire from a 28 inch 1:48 twist barrel achieved acceptable foot pounds to kill deer humanely at 50 meters. Round Ball is great for punching paper especially with light target loads.
Click to expand...

History does not reflect this. I guess all of those long barrelled 44/45 calibre kentucky rifles of yesteryear were just some fluke of nature right?

Modern economics/consumerism demands we buy the newest and most improved flavour of the week.
 
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