0.25 MOA right out of the box!

[merlin1]

No offence taken but i have searched out the top rifle makers and INSITE ARMS are bar none.I have friend who has one from them in 6.5cm and it shoots 0.15 pretty consistently.This is why i went to them and top components as impact action cryod barrel etc.As for factory rifle i had a sako trg22 which was a .25 rifle just not as consitent as top shelf custom.Good points made and given.View attachment 331760[/QUOTE

No offence taken , if it will shoot .015 consistently congratulations it will easily set the world record and beat the very best shooters in the world who only managed a best of a .2015 four gun grand agg at Phoenix in October.
My guess is it may shoot a .015 group now and then which is not so uncommon and totally different thing altogether , unless of course there is a registered match report with a .015 agg in which case I apologies for my scepticism and I am really impressed !
As I said I have not seen a factory rifle shoot .25 moa consistently yet but with all the advances in tech I am sure it is coming at some point

My stating what i have seen does not matter much here i see but its not .015 it was .15.....never the less unless i clamp it to a concrete table and shoot 5 round groups with cooling inbetween i can not by your description say its a .15 rifle.....ive spent much time with guys like Gord Ogg and Andy and Harley from insite in discussions but seems like it was a waste of time when i can come to cgn and get all these experts to tell me otherwise...kool keep on keeping on.cheers

 

[merlin1]

My stating what i have seen does not matter much here i see but its not .015 it was .15.....never the less unless i clamp it to a concrete table and shoot 5 round groups with cooling inbetween i can not by your description say its a .15 rifle.....ive spent much time with guys like Gord Ogg and Andy and Harley from insite in discussions but seems like it was a waste of time when i can come to cgn and get all these experts to tell me otherwise...kool keep on keeping on.cheers

This is why i dont post much on cgn as i find it a waste of time to me and obviously to others......lost my focus and posted tonight .....

 

[cdn shooter]

Consistent is not 100%...as i said the sako was not consistent as opposed to my buddies 6.5cm....i just posted for info not as loading datea so if you would like to knit pick on my buddies rifle or mine ..then good for you...i used general terms and by your standards a .25 moa rifle is one that never shoots anything more at any time .DOnt know how lng you ve been shooting long range but such an animal doesnt exist in human hands.UNless you lock it into a sled and clamp the sled to a concrete table and let the barrel go back to nominal temp between 5rd groups.and then and only then you can say i have a 100% .25 moa rifle.AS for honesty i have never try to streach the truth as i know it.AGain you are entitled to your opinion be it reasonable or not.

I’ve been shooting long range a while. Compete once in a while too. Thats probably the difference between us, once you compete you have to check your ego at the door and once the match is over evaluate how you and your gear performed. Same reason the “it’s a .15 rifle”, when it’s a fast twist creedmore, just sound absurd.

Anyway, I doubt the OP is still around but there is no such thing as a .25 moa .308 winchester out of the box.

 

[cdn shooter]

And Merlin, Insite is using the best components to build true world quality rifles. I have no doubt they can put out true sub half moa fast twist long range rifles, and if a person wants to I’m sure they’ll build world class short range bench guns that are true sub quarter guns. Far cry from an out of the box type deal though.

 

[merlin1]

And Merlin, Insite is using the best components to build true world quality rifles. I have no doubt they can put out true sub half moa fast twist long range rifles, and if a person wants to I’m sure they’ll build world class short range bench guns that are true sub quarter guns. Far cry from an out of the box type deal though.

We agree on this point and agree to disagree on some others

 

[sgt.rock]

Try a precision Remington 770, or, if you scour the used market and get lucky, you may find a Remington 710. They generally do .05" 25rd groups with a good quality Tasco or Barska scope.

 

[EC]

No offence taken but i have searched out the top rifle makers and INSITE ARMS are bar none.I have friend who has one from them in 6.5cm and it shoots 0.15 pretty consistently.This is why i went to them and top components as impact action cryod barrel etc.As for factory rifle i had a sako trg22 which was a .25 rifle just not as consitent as top shelf custom.Good points made and given.View attachment 331760[/QUOTE

No offence taken , if it will shoot .015 consistently congratulations it will easily set the world record and beat the very best shooters in the world who only managed a best of a .2015 four gun grand agg at Phoenix in October.
My guess is it may shoot a .015 group now and then which is not so uncommon and totally different thing altogether , unless of course there is a registered match report with a .015 agg in which case I apologies for my scepticism and I am really impressed !
As I said I have not seen a factory rifle shoot .25 moa consistently yet but with all the advances in tech I am sure it is coming at some point

With Bench Rest though, how much is the rifle and the shooter. The BR guys always chime in when accuracy claims are made. No doubt the rifles are accurate but take away the pedestal rests, bunny ear bags, flat bottom forends, trigger weights in the oz's and flags up to ying yang....would they be getting the same precision?

 

[johnl]

Try a precision Remington 770, or, if you scour the used market and get lucky, you may find a Remington 710. They generally do .05" 25rd groups with a good quality Tasco or Barska scope.

Bwahahaha

 

[cdn shooter]

With Bench Rest though, how much is the rifle and the shooter. The BR guys always chime in when accuracy claims are made. No doubt the rifles are accurate but take away the pedestal rests, bunny ear bags, flat bottom forends, trigger weights in the oz's and flags up to ying yang....would they be getting the same precision?

Whats wrong with this? You just described part of what it takes to stay under .25 on command.

 

[Grizzlypeg]

Try a precision Remington 770, or, if you scour the used market and get lucky, you may find a Remington 710. They generally do .05" 25rd groups with a good quality Tasco or Barska scope.

Always some entertainment to be had on CGN.

 

[EC]

Whats wrong with this? You just described part of what it takes to stay under .25 on command.

My point though is would you be able stay under.25 on command without all the flags, pedestal rests, bunny ear bags, flat bottom forends, trigger weights in the oz's etc. Throw a bipod on that sucker and a sand sock for a rear bag, take away the highlighted items and see if you will still be able to produce .25 on command.

 

[cdn shooter]

No probably not. Take away the flat base customs and you wont do it, take away the top match barrel your not doing it, take away the meticulous reload routine and you won’t do it. It’s a system like everything else.

 

[Pesky ab]

My point though is would you be able stay under.25 on command without all the flags, pedestal rests, bunny ear bags, flat bottom forends, trigger weights in the oz's etc. Throw a bipod on that sucker and a sand sock for a rear bag, take away the highlighted items and see if you will still be able to produce .25 on command.

You make an excellent case that bench manners are important , wind indicators so your not shooting blind and hoping for the best, also known as the “lottery effect” would be a good idea , as well as equipment that is not sub standard for the task at hand , that being shooting small groups , over and over again, at what ever distance ,
Of course if your point was trying to handicap until the results fall off the map , just get rid of the scopes , that should do it
So I have still not seen a factory set up that shoots .25 moa , .5 moa is a more reasonable goal at this time

 

[manitou210]

Here are a few of factory rifles that gave 5 shot .250" groups and smaller
Savage 12 223 1/7 twist
60s Rem 40x 222 light varmint many Benchrest score targets 50 & 5x
Rem 700 1965 222 Rem HV Barrel View attachment 331878View attachment 331880.many Benchrest score targets 50 & 5x
Sako 6ppc View attachment 331877
View attachment 331876

Here are what custom guns can achieve , with good smiths doing work, precision reloading, top optics and good shooters.
This 6br target was a friend who sent me this target Don Giraci he was one of shooters at Houston warehouse

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

View attachment 331881
This is what's called a one hole group This was shot bye Don Giraci
View attachment 331882

 

[cdn shooter]

What bullet was used in that .223 7 twist?

 

[manitou210]

What bullet was used in that .223 7 twist?

90gr Berger VLD, Varget, Brass Lapua neck turned, FD Gold match, 10k in

You probably will not believe this but it is true, That target below was shot at 300y with my good friends custom Savage 12 Bartlien barrel I had loaded some 80gr JLK bullets with Varget 24.7gr. When we got to Range (Stittsville) ON He was setting up gun on bench, Star shooter front rest & Edgewood rear bag he said you try those JLK loads, I fired 3 shots to foul barrel and get zerro at 300y
Look closely the first three shots are in small clover, I then got off bench and said to friend you finish 5 shot group,
he got behind gun looked at target (10to50x Sightron) said there is only one shot there, I said there is three,
He still wouldn't shoot, went down to target to check and sure enough 3 shots, I fired last 2 shots and muffed the smallest group I have ever fired .


View attachment 331914

 

[cdn shooter]

The 7 twist .223 is amazing, I’ve never seen anything like it. I spent a decade trying with customs and couldn’t come close. Have an 8 twist Krieger 223 that will stay under 1/2 at 300-500 and beyond but it refuses to do what you show there.

I guess there you have it, proof that a factory Savage has the ability to, with the same rifle, win a benchrest championship and an F Class championship without switching bullets. Pretty impressive.

 

[Pesky ab]

Here are a few of factory rifles that gave 5 shot .250" groups and smaller
Savage 12 223 1/7 twist
60s Rem 40x 222 light varmint many Benchrest score targets 50 & 5x
Rem 700 1965 222 Rem HV Barrel View attachment 331878View attachment 331880.many Benchrest score targets 50 & 5x
Sako 6ppc View attachment 331877
View attachment 331876

Here are what custom guns can achieve , with good smiths doing work, precision reloading, top optics and good shooters.
This 6br target was a friend who sent me this target Don Giraci he was one of shooters at Houston warehouse

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

View attachment 331881
This is what's called a one hole group This was shot bye Don Giraci
View attachment 331882

some nice targets and that looks like an excellent shooting rifle,
those are hunter score targets so there is no way to measure for group on them, Here is what we do know , general rule of thumb for group ,if your group is inside the mothball , its a teen , if its on the lines but not over its probably a small .2, if it breaks the lines on both sides its a .250 plus. that is with a 6 mm bullet ,the moth ball is .5 moa and your bullet is a .224 and it broke the lines on both sides,
I see that it was match 3 , so far that is just one group, would you happen to have match 1,2,4,5 from the same shoot ,if you do and they are better than the target in the pic,I would say you have a genuine .250 moa rifle
unfortunately,so far its a really nice rifle that has shot a nice group
shoot some more matches, it sure looks like it has potential, and getting there is half the fun

 

[jm181920]

Only bench rest, i have not seen one with .25 moa

 

[DEZ]

Savage Model 12 BR in 6br if you do your part