100M/YD 22LR 10 rnd groups
- Thread starter emerson
- Start date
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I like that video and it confirms what I have seen and have talked about on here... the issues with rimfire ammo can't be readily identified by external parameters.
sometimes, it works out... sometimes, it doesn't and because the results are inconsistent... I do not consider it a reliable metric to help improve my results.
Would have been very interesting for him to also have velocity numbers while shooting those groups....
Jerry
sometimes, it works out... sometimes, it doesn't and because the results are inconsistent... I do not consider it a reliable metric to help improve my results.
Would have been very interesting for him to also have velocity numbers while shooting those groups....
Jerry
Testing Eley Match for rim thickness was essentially a waste of time. Total difference was perhaps a hair over 1.0" . . . maybe 1.1" max.
In order to get a more finite measurement the dividing line might be 0.037" and the two groups were less that and greater than so perhaps 0.006 variation.
While there is a GemPro at my disposal I have not tested that facet.
Getting back to the targets, my printer shows to scale and 92% shows in a window on the print screen.
At that setting, the outside of the 10-ring measures 1.079".
When printing to scale at 100%, the 10-ring measured 1.169.
At some point the 91.44% was used as 100 yards = 91.44 metres.
This was deemed a fair way to convert between those shooting in our postal match on 100 Metre and 100 Yard ranges.
Makes no difference as long as everyone is shooting on the same target on game day.
Testing rimfire ammo over a chronograph may have some merit however once the shot is fired it becomes impossible to duplicate.
Where there is value in using a chronograph is a matter of eliminating a lot with a velocity that outside what has been previously determined to be a preference velocity.
At some point or other it appeared my Remington liked something in the 1062 range.
That was quite by accident as case lots were being ordered for our group, and Mr. T. only brought enough for two of the three bricks he ordered.
Consistency up to 1060 and over 1070 was never as good as 1060 - 1065.
In order to get a more finite measurement the dividing line might be 0.037" and the two groups were less that and greater than so perhaps 0.006 variation.
While there is a GemPro at my disposal I have not tested that facet.
Getting back to the targets, my printer shows to scale and 92% shows in a window on the print screen.
At that setting, the outside of the 10-ring measures 1.079".
When printing to scale at 100%, the 10-ring measured 1.169.
At some point the 91.44% was used as 100 yards = 91.44 metres.
This was deemed a fair way to convert between those shooting in our postal match on 100 Metre and 100 Yard ranges.
Makes no difference as long as everyone is shooting on the same target on game day.
Testing rimfire ammo over a chronograph may have some merit however once the shot is fired it becomes impossible to duplicate.
Where there is value in using a chronograph is a matter of eliminating a lot with a velocity that outside what has been previously determined to be a preference velocity.
At some point or other it appeared my Remington liked something in the 1062 range.
That was quite by accident as case lots were being ordered for our group, and Mr. T. only brought enough for two of the three bricks he ordered.
Consistency up to 1060 and over 1070 was never as good as 1060 - 1065.
I zero at 50M and dial to 100. Others may do it differently.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Count every shot.. don't make up excuses... measure and report the raw data. Excellent video....
and, was there a consistent and reliable relationship between velocity AND point of impact?
NOTE, I accept that the chrony used was not ideal... but it is what was used.
Jerry
PS... hope he bought every box of that lot Std+ Working superbly in that rifle.
and, was there a consistent and reliable relationship between velocity AND point of impact?
NOTE, I accept that the chrony used was not ideal... but it is what was used.
Jerry
PS... hope he bought every box of that lot Std+ Working superbly in that rifle.
Last edited:
SK RM and S+ yes, the SK RM is almost as good as CCISV. SK LRM and SK HV I haven’t tried. I will have a match chambered barrel at some point so I’ll have to start over with what didn’t work in the factory one.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
In general, the higher grades of ammo will shoot better the further you go ... assuming the ammo suits your barrel at closer distances. We shoot and have shot ALOT of CCI SV in short/mid range practise. So far, CCI SV has not worked good enough at LR in all of the rifles we shoot (and there are quite the number and selection)... but if it works for you, buy up as much of that lot as you can afford.
I do my initial testing at 100yds.. quickly confirm at 190yds (cause that is the distance to the board)... make the final selection at 300+. By the time you get to 400yds, real easy to see what is working and is not.
Jerry
One of the difficulties faced by shooters is the challenge of knowing what results are typical and what are not. Anyone who's shot at 50 yards and has seen the range of group sizes often achieved understands that at longer distances group sizes can vary even more. One or a few groups can never meaningfully tell the tale of how well a rifle and ammo shoot.
With regard to ammo performance at increasing distances, if an ammo is very good at 100 yards -- in other words better than all the others being tested -- then it will be better than all those others at further distances. There's no such thing as an ammo that groups better as it goes further and further down range. No rounds have self-correcting mechanisms in them that adjust the trajectory for improvement.
To be sure, there are infrequent examples of .22LR ammo producing better MOA results at 100 meters than at 50 at the Lapua testing facilities. Such results, however, are unpredictable and can't be repeated on demand. And significantly, not all ammo from that particular lot will behave the same way -- that is, do better at 100 than at 50. Such anomalies are caused by an offset center of gravity in individual bullets. These irregularities in the ammo can't be anticipated.
With regard to ammo performance at increasing distances, if an ammo is very good at 100 yards -- in other words better than all the others being tested -- then it will be better than all those others at further distances. There's no such thing as an ammo that groups better as it goes further and further down range. No rounds have self-correcting mechanisms in them that adjust the trajectory for improvement.
To be sure, there are infrequent examples of .22LR ammo producing better MOA results at 100 meters than at 50 at the Lapua testing facilities. Such results, however, are unpredictable and can't be repeated on demand. And significantly, not all ammo from that particular lot will behave the same way -- that is, do better at 100 than at 50. Such anomalies are caused by an offset center of gravity in individual bullets. These irregularities in the ammo can't be anticipated.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
When you shoot and test at LR with any reasonable amount of effort, it will be very obvious what ammo works ... and what doesn't... rifles too.
Don't take my word for it... very easy to prove for oneself. Most combos will need around 16.5mils from a 50m zero to get to 300m.
It either will.. or it will not.
Jerry
Don't take my word for it... very easy to prove for oneself. Most combos will need around 16.5mils from a 50m zero to get to 300m.
It either will.. or it will not.
Jerry
The ranges I shoot change from 89M to 99M depending on location. I’m fine adding 10%+ to expected group size. My bench groups are only ammo testing anyway. If the folks shooting bench rest every week at 100 yds/M are averaging 1.25” 10 rnd groups at either distance that’s what I am interested in. If it’s .75”, that makes me feel like I’ve got a lot of work to do. I record all my ammo testing group sizes. My average over 44 10rnd groups@89M this year (every one I recorded, no cherry picking) with CCISV is 1.78” center to center. 11 of those groups were 1.5” or less, but none under 1”. 17 were 2”+. Often there are 8 good ones and 2 crazy ones opening things up, usually vertically. My hope is a better barrel fed with better ammo will bring that average down to 1.25”. My steadiest positional groups flirt with 2” at that range so the ammunition isn’t holding me back too much yet.
Last edited:
It not as formal as the 50yd one. Shoot a few 10rnd groups at 100 and post them up. A basic rundown of rifle, ammo, optics would be great. I’m trying to get an idea what an average 10 rnd bench group at 100 looks like for the folks that have spent some time pursuing this. It’s for fun and discussion of the journey.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If shooters printed out their rimfire data and compared to other shooters using the same ammo, they will likely find alot of similarities.
Jerry
Just got back from shooting 100 yards,that one shot at 50 that makes your group open up to.475 etc,at 100 is very revealing.hard so keep your confidence at 100.the higher grade tested ammo starts to shine at 100,it shows the flaws really well at 100.100 yards can be very frustrating depending on your expectations.when you have a nice group at .26 and then that one that takes it to .480 well that extrapolated at at 100 is very noticeable.think i said 100 to many times
Last edited:
