10mm for bear defense
- Thread starter Big Mike
- Start date
Are you allowed to carry if you had a prospectors license in New Brunswick?
If so a person is allowed to do several different thing at the same time. For instance I also always have a license for hunting and fishing and can do both at the same time that I am working as a prospector.
Prospecting is looking for any kind of rock/gem/mineral etc which means that everytime that I am in the bush I am working as a prospector.
Can you be a hunting guide and a prospector at the same time in your province? I'd definately be looking into it.
If so a person is allowed to do several different thing at the same time. For instance I also always have a license for hunting and fishing and can do both at the same time that I am working as a prospector.
Prospecting is looking for any kind of rock/gem/mineral etc which means that everytime that I am in the bush I am working as a prospector.
Can you be a hunting guide and a prospector at the same time in your province? I'd definately be looking into it.
ghillie said:
Do I read that correctly that you cannot even have a long gun while working/guiding ???
Your provincial CFO needs to spend a year feeding his family by re-filling bear baits and guiding while unarmed, instead of sitting on his fat ass collecting a cheque from taxpayers
While having to get permission from anyone to carry for protection doesn't exactly please me, I will say that the NW CFO in Edmonton is very good about these things.
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At this time the only peolpe that can acquire a CCW are enforcement officers, our permits are called ATC's "Authorization to Carry" which only allows non-concealed carry.
In order to find out if you as a photographer can get a ATC, phone the CFC @ 1-800-731-4000 and ask them.
Then post back here and let us know because I would become a photographer as well as being a prospector.
Cam
In order to find out if you as a photographer can get a ATC, phone the CFC @ 1-800-731-4000 and ask them.
Then post back here and let us know because I would become a photographer as well as being a prospector.
Cam
I've played around with .451 detonics and .45 SUPER ... both have significant OOMPH!! Never shot no bars with them, but both these loads sure did motivate bowling pins nicely.
45 Super Loads in a RAMPED 6" SS CONED barrel:
Win 231 powder
180 Gr @ 1400 fps
230 Gr Hornady FP @ 1200 fp
Did I mention I used a RAMPED barrel for the .45 Super?
45 Super Loads in a RAMPED 6" SS CONED barrel:
Win 231 powder
180 Gr @ 1400 fps
230 Gr Hornady FP @ 1200 fp
Did I mention I used a RAMPED barrel for the .45 Super?
My 6" barreled Colt Delta Elite 10mm produces 180gr loads @ 1360fps and 200gr loads @ 1320fps. and my 5" G20 produces slightly less velocity.
When that is not enough I go to my 6" 629 44mag with 240gr loads @ 1450fps or my 5.5" Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt with 330gr loads @ 1320fps.
When none of the above are doing enough for me I go to my 7.5" SRH 454 Casull with 240gr loads @ 1900fps, 300gr loads @ 1650fps, 360gr loads @ 1520fps and 390gr loads @ 1420fps.
When that is not enough I go to my 6" 629 44mag with 240gr loads @ 1450fps or my 5.5" Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt with 330gr loads @ 1320fps.
When none of the above are doing enough for me I go to my 7.5" SRH 454 Casull with 240gr loads @ 1900fps, 300gr loads @ 1650fps, 360gr loads @ 1520fps and 390gr loads @ 1420fps.
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Mike, the 500 is just to big of a handgun for me thats why I stopped with the SRH 454 Casull.
Canuck, when I am carrying my revolvers I'm not looking at getting 6 shots off in 7 seconds. I'd rather have a couple of well placed shots from a bone crushing round that stands a chance at stopping a bear than 8 or 10 that just piss the animal off more.
That is why my 10mm's stay at home when I'm in big bear country. The more experiences and bear encounters that I have while working in the bush the more powerful of a handgun I want. The 454 Casull is the limit for power/recoil that I can shoot to my standards.
I just went to my video clips that I have taken of myself shooting my top 44mag loads and draw and fire 6 rounds in 8 seconds. I'll email the clip to you if you send me your email address.
Cam
Canuck, when I am carrying my revolvers I'm not looking at getting 6 shots off in 7 seconds. I'd rather have a couple of well placed shots from a bone crushing round that stands a chance at stopping a bear than 8 or 10 that just piss the animal off more.
That is why my 10mm's stay at home when I'm in big bear country. The more experiences and bear encounters that I have while working in the bush the more powerful of a handgun I want. The 454 Casull is the limit for power/recoil that I can shoot to my standards.
I just went to my video clips that I have taken of myself shooting my top 44mag loads and draw and fire 6 rounds in 8 seconds. I'll email the clip to you if you send me your email address.
Cam
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- Location
- Southeastern Michigan
I want to post this again as it makes a lot of sense to me:
"I respect the opinion of USMA grad Chuck Karwin who lives in bear country. He wrote an article on handguns for protection against bears. His opine was the Glock 29 would work; his advice was, if mauled, shoot the bear's neck out. I will die a happy man if I do not have to test Chuck Karwin's theory! Lastly, I am waiting for KKM to make a 10mm conversion barrel for my G30. Regards, Richard"
"I respect the opinion of USMA grad Chuck Karwin who lives in bear country. He wrote an article on handguns for protection against bears. His opine was the Glock 29 would work; his advice was, if mauled, shoot the bear's neck out. I will die a happy man if I do not have to test Chuck Karwin's theory! Lastly, I am waiting for KKM to make a 10mm conversion barrel for my G30. Regards, Richard
"I read a thread on Greybeards Outdoors forum a couple of years ago written by a fellow named JJ Hack that was a bear hunting guide in Washington State and had been in on over 300 black bear kills with handguns.
He said he always carried his 44mag in a hip holster with 240gr JHP bullets.
One time a bear came down out of the tree that it was chased up and attacked JJ Hack.
He stated in his comments that once the bear was on him he didn't have a chance to do anything except to try and defend himself with his hands and arms. He also stated that it would have been impossible for him to draw his handgun and fire because he was so busy just trying to keep the bear from doing more damage.
He said he always carried his 44mag in a hip holster with 240gr JHP bullets.
One time a bear came down out of the tree that it was chased up and attacked JJ Hack.
He stated in his comments that once the bear was on him he didn't have a chance to do anything except to try and defend himself with his hands and arms. He also stated that it would have been impossible for him to draw his handgun and fire because he was so busy just trying to keep the bear from doing more damage.
If I had to make the choice.... my real world experiences dictate that you bring the BIGGEST thing you can carry. Would you wear cheap body armor?
A handgun would never be my first choice against a bear; black,white brown,alaskan, grizzly whatever. Rifle or .12GA with sabot slugs at the very least. I have shot many bears using .308 and .30-06. Also shot them with my Ruger .44Mag carbine. They can still keep going. I refuse to agree that a 10mm is "adequate" but hey... it's your life.
Regards,
A handgun would never be my first choice against a bear; black,white brown,alaskan, grizzly whatever. Rifle or .12GA with sabot slugs at the very least. I have shot many bears using .308 and .30-06. Also shot them with my Ruger .44Mag carbine. They can still keep going. I refuse to agree that a 10mm is "adequate" but hey... it's your life.
Regards,
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Boomer686 said:
Yes, but that precludes the notion that you maybe separated from your primary arm.
On the other hand, prospectors, surveyors, tree planters, archaeologists, and others who work in the bush often have too much to do and too much to carry to worry about packing in a long gun. Sometimes they can employ a bear guard who is armed with an appropriate firearm, however this is often not the case. In such cases a powerful handgun is quite comforting.
Canuck wrote:
I have played around with this cartridge a fair bit, launching it from a para 14-45. It is impressive indeed, I loaded them all the way up to 1450 fps with 200g swc's. With a 20lb recoil spring it is actually quite pleasant to shoot, I could burn off a mag accurately just slightly slower than with regular 45acp. What's cool is it's just a quick swap of a $10 recoil spring.
I don't own a 45 anymore so if anyone wants to buy some of these 45-08's they are up for grabs. I've got 100 of em, some twice fired, some once fired, some never fired at all, well once in 308 perhaps.
Dave
I have played around with this cartridge a fair bit, launching it from a para 14-45. It is impressive indeed, I loaded them all the way up to 1450 fps with 200g swc's. With a 20lb recoil spring it is actually quite pleasant to shoot, I could burn off a mag accurately just slightly slower than with regular 45acp. What's cool is it's just a quick swap of a $10 recoil spring.
I don't own a 45 anymore so if anyone wants to buy some of these 45-08's they are up for grabs. I've got 100 of em, some twice fired, some once fired, some never fired at all, well once in 308 perhaps.
Dave
Forester with ATC for Alberta going on 6 years now.
40S&W
10mm
44mag
454 Casull
What I carry depends on what time of year it is and what areas I am in but I always have a handgun with me and a Norinco 14" 12 Gauge loaded with slugs and 000 buck in the quad. I also have a Marlin lever action Guide Gun in the truck under the back seat for when I have been called to deal with a problem animal.
I have seen bears charge and been in front of a couple when they have (including a small black bear with its cub running between my legs) and have never had to shoot one yet. I have seen them shoot a couple times with 12 Gauge slugs and once with a 44mag as it charged a fellow forester and these worked well, although the 44mag was a bit close for everyone involved. I carry the 10mm and 40 S&W in the winter time because all the bears are sleeping and they will work on anything I might have to shoot ie cougars or large ungulates.
As stated in this thread a couple of times, the best defense is to avoid the contact and the second best is to act appropriately when you do have encounter. Shooting first is not the best way to act when you see a bear and just having a firearm does not mean that you are safe. I believe the last time I checked the stats, the percentage of people mauled by bears (which is not that many by the way) that were armed at the time was in the high 70s. There is much work done by wildlife behaviorists that help one determine what the bears intentions are and how to react to them as to prevent physical contact. As stated, I have used these methods for more then 10 years now in the bush and have always walked away from my encounters.
I got my ATC and started carrying full time 6 years ago because I got married and my wife insisted that I come home every night, especially when we started having kids. I firmly believe that 99% of encounters can be avoid or handled in a way that the bear does not have to be killed, I just do not want to be that unlucky 1% that can not be.
Most experts agree that most attacks happen based on what is done by the person involved in the attack and not the bear and there are only a few cases of bears attacking as a predator to humans (only 2 cases that I know of for Grizzlies) ignoring Polar Bears which will hunt humans as prey at the drop of a hat.
Please excuse my lengthy post but I though that I would share my option on this since I have been working in the bush most of my adult life and training bear safety to my crews for just about as long.
Chris
PS In Alberta, you must be working in the bush to get a ATC (trapper, forester, geologist, etc) and you have to jump through some hoops like answering a 20 question sheet about why you need to carry a handgun, get a RCMP or range officer to write you a letter saying you are competent with your firearm, get a letter from your employer saying they know you are carrying (if you are self employed then a letter saying this), and a copy of your membership to a gun range. The first couple years you will have to renew annually at the cost of $40 a year but after they get to know you, you can get one for 2 years at a time for $80. you could only get a ATT good for 3 months at a time but they have since changed that and you can now get a ATT like your range one and they will issue it to you for the length of your ATC now.
40S&W
10mm
44mag
454 Casull
What I carry depends on what time of year it is and what areas I am in but I always have a handgun with me and a Norinco 14" 12 Gauge loaded with slugs and 000 buck in the quad. I also have a Marlin lever action Guide Gun in the truck under the back seat for when I have been called to deal with a problem animal.
I have seen bears charge and been in front of a couple when they have (including a small black bear with its cub running between my legs) and have never had to shoot one yet. I have seen them shoot a couple times with 12 Gauge slugs and once with a 44mag as it charged a fellow forester and these worked well, although the 44mag was a bit close for everyone involved. I carry the 10mm and 40 S&W in the winter time because all the bears are sleeping and they will work on anything I might have to shoot ie cougars or large ungulates.
As stated in this thread a couple of times, the best defense is to avoid the contact and the second best is to act appropriately when you do have encounter. Shooting first is not the best way to act when you see a bear and just having a firearm does not mean that you are safe. I believe the last time I checked the stats, the percentage of people mauled by bears (which is not that many by the way) that were armed at the time was in the high 70s. There is much work done by wildlife behaviorists that help one determine what the bears intentions are and how to react to them as to prevent physical contact. As stated, I have used these methods for more then 10 years now in the bush and have always walked away from my encounters.
I got my ATC and started carrying full time 6 years ago because I got married and my wife insisted that I come home every night, especially when we started having kids. I firmly believe that 99% of encounters can be avoid or handled in a way that the bear does not have to be killed, I just do not want to be that unlucky 1% that can not be.
Most experts agree that most attacks happen based on what is done by the person involved in the attack and not the bear and there are only a few cases of bears attacking as a predator to humans (only 2 cases that I know of for Grizzlies) ignoring Polar Bears which will hunt humans as prey at the drop of a hat.
Please excuse my lengthy post but I though that I would share my option on this since I have been working in the bush most of my adult life and training bear safety to my crews for just about as long.
Chris
PS In Alberta, you must be working in the bush to get a ATC (trapper, forester, geologist, etc) and you have to jump through some hoops like answering a 20 question sheet about why you need to carry a handgun, get a RCMP or range officer to write you a letter saying you are competent with your firearm, get a letter from your employer saying they know you are carrying (if you are self employed then a letter saying this), and a copy of your membership to a gun range. The first couple years you will have to renew annually at the cost of $40 a year but after they get to know you, you can get one for 2 years at a time for $80. you could only get a ATT good for 3 months at a time but they have since changed that and you can now get a ATT like your range one and they will issue it to you for the length of your ATC now.
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C HRISLUH, one of the reasons you have so sucsefully avoided problems with bears besides your expertise, is because you go home every night. i.e. most people I know or have heard about having major bear problems have been hunters with big game animals down.
Try sleeping in a bag in a tent 100 miles from help, on some mountain with a bighorn carcass hanging 100 yards away, and blood all over your clothes.! I know of 2 elk hunters last year that claim Grizzlys chased them off their Elk.
Try sleeping in a bag in a tent 100 miles from help, on some mountain with a bighorn carcass hanging 100 yards away, and blood all over your clothes.! I know of 2 elk hunters last year that claim Grizzlys chased them off their Elk.
