10W30 motor oil as gun lube?
- Thread starter Disco Bob
- Start date
This is about what I expected. 2 kinds of people out there. Proper one's who urinate after exiting the shower and ... well... you can guess the rest of the saying. Or folks who use proper lubricants designed for the purpose... and folks like myself.
I'm a 3 in 1 man myself...that's as fancy as it gets in my 'hood
I'm a 3 in 1 man myself...that's as fancy as it gets in my 'hood
Bought some 'Sask made Canola oil derivative' gun oil...huge mistake. Turned to varnish over the winter.
And thanks for the input 9.3...I'll lube up a wallhanger and check back on it in 6 months. No fool like an Old Fool...why not listen to an alternate opinion?
Motor oil for a firearm, now I've heard it all.
Characterization of Bore Temperatures and Stresses in Small Caliber Gun Barrels
Data gathered from physical testing will be compared to analytical methods used to assess barrel wall temperature profiles and barrel wall stress and strain.
Army Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey
Currently in the small arms community, with the push for lighter, stronger barrels with improved life, a more complete understanding of the bore's thermal and structural behavior is required in order to not only improve future barrel design but to more thoroughly and accurately assess barrels in the current inventory.
The environment within a small caliber gun barrel during a firing event is extreme. As a round is fired, hot, pressurized gases are produced, ranging in the thousands of degrees Fahrenheit (°F) and up to and beyond 62,500 lb per square inch (psi), all within 1 ms. Moreover, in an automatic weapon such as a machine gun, the barrel's steady state temperature quickly increases as more rounds are fired in succession with the outer surface of machine gun barrels reaching higher than 1,000°F.
M240L long barrel
While the temperature at the barrel's outside wall can be easily measured in real time by a variety of means, the temperature at the bore or throughout the barrel's wall is much more difficult to characterize experimentally. Previous research aimed to characterize the true temperature experienced by a 5.56-mm test barrel's bore and throughout the barrel's wall in real time. Other research also looked at measuring the temperature through a 5.56-mm M4 barrel's wall and correlating the data back to numerical computational fluid dynamics (CFD) modeling and simulation tools. Data from those studies has been correlated back to various modeling and simulation of the respective 5.56-mm barrels; however, there is no information available on 7.62-mm barrels, such as the M240L long barrel. Data and related modeling and simulation from a 7.62-mm barrel, when combined with the data and modeling and simulation from the 5.56-mm barrels, will help develop a better understanding of barrel heating in small caliber barrels and could help to increase the fidelity of the modeling and simulation tools used to predict barrel temperatures.
Stress analysis of small caliber barrels is currently done using calculations in the Army Materiel Command Pamphlet (AMCP), Engineering Design Handbook, Guns Series, Gun Tubes, AMCP 706-252. There has been minimal work done to correlate test data back to the calculations outlined in AMCP 706-252. While strain is easily measured, traditional strain gages are limited in their utility on a machine gun barrel due to the temperature that the outside of the barrel reaches during firing. Correlation of the strain measured in the hoop direction to the strain calculated using traditional methods from AMCP 706-252 is critical to gaining a more thorough understanding of the barrel's structural behavior.
The purpose of this research is to characterize the temperature and stress in a 7.62-mm M240L long machine gun barrel during a firing event using commercial sensors and data acquisition equipment. The data from testing is intended to be used to correlate and validate numerical CFD modeling and simulation to predict barrel temperature, as well as gun barrel stress analysis outlined in AMCP 706-252. Temperature data was measured with in-wall thermocouples (IWTC) from Veritay Technology, Inc. (East Amherst, NY), and strain data was measured with strain gages from Vishay Precision Group (VPG), Inc. (Malvern, PA). The measurements were taken in real time and at high sampling rates so that the true profile during the firing event could be observed.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw042v8N3WCSIluhWOzMwW4l&cshid=1611471217143
Reminder to self "Never buy a used firearm"
Characterization of Bore Temperatures and Stresses in Small Caliber Gun Barrels
Data gathered from physical testing will be compared to analytical methods used to assess barrel wall temperature profiles and barrel wall stress and strain.
Army Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center, Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey
Currently in the small arms community, with the push for lighter, stronger barrels with improved life, a more complete understanding of the bore's thermal and structural behavior is required in order to not only improve future barrel design but to more thoroughly and accurately assess barrels in the current inventory.
The environment within a small caliber gun barrel during a firing event is extreme. As a round is fired, hot, pressurized gases are produced, ranging in the thousands of degrees Fahrenheit (°F) and up to and beyond 62,500 lb per square inch (psi), all within 1 ms. Moreover, in an automatic weapon such as a machine gun, the barrel's steady state temperature quickly increases as more rounds are fired in succession with the outer surface of machine gun barrels reaching higher than 1,000°F.
M240L long barrel
While the temperature at the barrel's outside wall can be easily measured in real time by a variety of means, the temperature at the bore or throughout the barrel's wall is much more difficult to characterize experimentally. Previous research aimed to characterize the true temperature experienced by a 5.56-mm test barrel's bore and throughout the barrel's wall in real time. Other research also looked at measuring the temperature through a 5.56-mm M4 barrel's wall and correlating the data back to numerical computational fluid dynamics (CFD) modeling and simulation tools. Data from those studies has been correlated back to various modeling and simulation of the respective 5.56-mm barrels; however, there is no information available on 7.62-mm barrels, such as the M240L long barrel. Data and related modeling and simulation from a 7.62-mm barrel, when combined with the data and modeling and simulation from the 5.56-mm barrels, will help develop a better understanding of barrel heating in small caliber barrels and could help to increase the fidelity of the modeling and simulation tools used to predict barrel temperatures.
Stress analysis of small caliber barrels is currently done using calculations in the Army Materiel Command Pamphlet (AMCP), Engineering Design Handbook, Guns Series, Gun Tubes, AMCP 706-252. There has been minimal work done to correlate test data back to the calculations outlined in AMCP 706-252. While strain is easily measured, traditional strain gages are limited in their utility on a machine gun barrel due to the temperature that the outside of the barrel reaches during firing. Correlation of the strain measured in the hoop direction to the strain calculated using traditional methods from AMCP 706-252 is critical to gaining a more thorough understanding of the barrel's structural behavior.
The purpose of this research is to characterize the temperature and stress in a 7.62-mm M240L long machine gun barrel during a firing event using commercial sensors and data acquisition equipment. The data from testing is intended to be used to correlate and validate numerical CFD modeling and simulation to predict barrel temperature, as well as gun barrel stress analysis outlined in AMCP 706-252. Temperature data was measured with in-wall thermocouples (IWTC) from Veritay Technology, Inc. (East Amherst, NY), and strain data was measured with strain gages from Vishay Precision Group (VPG), Inc. (Malvern, PA). The measurements were taken in real time and at high sampling rates so that the true profile during the firing event could be observed.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw042v8N3WCSIluhWOzMwW4l&cshid=1611471217143
Reminder to self "Never buy a used firearm"
Um...not once was the term 'Lubrication' ( or even Lubricity, sliptivity... even wiener slider or any other term for the usage of motor oil or any other oil) mentioned in your "Cut & Paste'... reread it too. Not once... you are going to need to clarify your point you are striving to make a bit.
Most here are not going to be running or servicing an LMG anytime soon for that matter either.
Assuming you are worried about swabbing the barrel with Motor oil after cleaning?
Not salty...just wondering about the point of the 'Cut & Paste'?
Most here are not going to be running or servicing an LMG anytime soon for that matter either.
Assuming you are worried about swabbing the barrel with Motor oil after cleaning?
Not salty...just wondering about the point of the 'Cut & Paste'?
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
we used to dump atf,motor oil, whatever was available on the C5 and the .50 back in the day. CLP was hard to come by in the dark decade sometimes.
It worked, they worked, but don`t use it at -50’C, you could end up with problems.....
One guy read that the Russians mixed oil and gasoline, wish i could find that picture of the flaming .50
It worked, they worked, but don`t use it at -50’C, you could end up with problems.....
One guy read that the Russians mixed oil and gasoline, wish i could find that picture of the flaming .50
Well, that clariifies things a bit thanks for that.
What sort of temp is proper Gun lube good for? Real question here...
Exhaust temps on Turbo diesels roll about 1000-1250° F. I've seen big Diesel Turbo's glowing Red...that is minium 900° likely higher. Turbo's spin about 100, 000 on a slow one... the oil doesn't fail does it?
What sort of temp do you expect the reciprocating parts on an MG to reach? I don't see how the temp's inside the bbl will affect the the working parts of the action too drastically.
Red Hot steel is around 900° F IIRC from Welding class.
What sort of temp is proper Gun lube good for? Real question here...
Exhaust temps on Turbo diesels roll about 1000-1250° F. I've seen big Diesel Turbo's glowing Red...that is minium 900° likely higher. Turbo's spin about 100, 000 on a slow one... the oil doesn't fail does it?
What sort of temp do you expect the reciprocating parts on an MG to reach? I don't see how the temp's inside the bbl will affect the the working parts of the action too drastically.
Red Hot steel is around 900° F IIRC from Welding class.
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Actually they added the Gasoline to the crankcase of aircraft engines right before they shut them down. Lowered the viscosity of the ( non-multi-grade ) engine oil so that it would start. At an idle the gasoline would evaporate from the 30 or 50 wt oil. By operating temp the oil was back to straight oil...legend has it anyhow.
But that is pretty funny..lubing an MG with gas / oil mixture... engine oil burns insanely hot. Ran Frac heaters for a couple months. One of those nasty things was rumoured to produce 53,000,000 BTU in a 24 hour period...take water from sub zero to 30° C in one pass...at 2m3/min. Uselss info for the most part, still crazy numbers.
Graveyards...
The difference between conventional and synthetic is the molecular structure, hence why synthetic at a lower grade 20w viscosity provides protection as good as say a 50 w conventional and lasts longer. But once either is beyond its operating temperatures they begin to break down in the from of carbon/coking.
Try your own home experiment and see for yourself, get some conventional and synthetic a torch and heat them up past there operating tenps and see what happens. Then ask yourself if you want at in your Firearm.
Also keep in mind most engines today are all aluminum which helps dissipate heat quicker, yet firearm barrels and slides are mostly made from steel which tends to retain heat, longer and dissipates it slower.
The same story applies to the guy that uses car motor oil in a Superbike, a oil designed for 5-7 thousand max rpms, is going to be completely broken down and destroyed to nothing spinning in a motor that max rpms are 9 - 13 thousand. Just on thermal properties alone it would be a failure never mind lubrication.
So how does Rotella 15-40 hold up to a turbo-charger spinning at up to 250,000 rpm at over 1000° F?
Makes 9-13 thousand seem pretty slow and considerably cooler IMO.
I do understand your point about not putting a lower grade oil in a racing engine... but I think you underestimate the amount of abuse that a decent oil will prevent. The bottom dollar crap is that...bottom dollar crap...fair enough
Decent oil is pretty good at preventing damage in extreme environments...I'd guess more extreme than a bolt reciprocating at...1200 spm? Is that a fair rate of fire on a squad MG?
Makes 9-13 thousand seem pretty slow and considerably cooler IMO.
I do understand your point about not putting a lower grade oil in a racing engine... but I think you underestimate the amount of abuse that a decent oil will prevent. The bottom dollar crap is that...bottom dollar crap...fair enough
Decent oil is pretty good at preventing damage in extreme environments...I'd guess more extreme than a bolt reciprocating at...1200 spm? Is that a fair rate of fire on a squad MG?
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Aprilia Man
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canadian "WET" Coast (Raincouver)
Amen
It’s been a long time since I looked into this, but I believe the main differences for motorcycle oils involved less detergents and less ‘anti-friction’ additives that would supposedly cause slippage of the wet multi-plate clutch. I ran automotive oils in my road and track bikes for 10 Years without a problem.
Currently use Rotella conventional oil in my track car without issue. I have had engine failures with both motorcycles and cars. When taken apart I saw nothing that would change my opinions regarding motor oil.
I do agree that synthetic is superior, but I think the biggest advantage is with longer service intervals.
I do agree that synthetic is superior, but I think the biggest advantage is with longer service intervals.
I ran COOP 5-30 in my Old V45 Magna...it'll pull 9500 RPM on a slow day. It's gotta be pretty crappy oil to fail on you. Decent motor oil is tough stuff...I don't run it on / in firearms, but I wouldn't rule it out either. The bike stuff doesn't phase me...SD diesels, now that is a pretty abusive scenario. we used to sample our's...crazy hours between oil changes. Like 5000K hours sometimes on a tight engine.
Back to my original statement; 2 kinds of people; those who get out of the shower...those who don't...LoL
Not a legend. The manual for my Dodge M37 has a table listing how much gasoline to add to the crank case before shut-down, depending on the expected overnight low temperature. The instructions also specify that when the engine is started the next day, it must be idled for a specific time before being operated under load, to ensure that the gasoline has evaporated and the oil is a lubricant again. If there's anybody left who operated these trucks in the Service, maybe you have stories of how common engine fires were, if they happened at all.
