12 vs 20 gauge - Recoil comparison & recommendations for a woman?

Well, my wife is 5'6 and 115 lbs. She has both a 20 and a 12 (express and Wingmaster), and doesnt complain about recoil for either.

And it has A LOT to do with the ammo your shooting, amongst other things. Light 12 gauge target loads dont kick at all, while 3.5 inch turkey loads have substantial recoil
 
On review of this thread, all I have really gleaned from it is that manbearpig has a lot to learn, and is quite arrogant. Noted. Just too bad that's the something new I learned today.

do you actually have anything constructive to add, like '870 Expresses recoil more than Wingmasters'? or are you just here in defense of your Fudd buddy - who seems to have run out of third grader insults?
 
do you actually have anything constructive to add, like '870 Expresses recoil more than Wingmasters'? or are you just here in defense of your Fudd buddy - who seems to have run out of third grader insults?

The only reason I use "third grader" insults is that I thought you might understand them. Guess I was wrong.
Anyone that would suggest a new female shooter should get a knox spec ops stock on her first shotgun. Deserves all they get.
 
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Oh wow... :eek: I've been gone for the day but I didn't think my thread would be 5 pages long when I got back! I feel like I've stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest between manbearpig and Win/64... I can't figure out if you guys are joking in sarcasm or actually can't stand each other... :confused:

Thank you everyone for all of your suggestions... really, really helpful! While the colourful discussions were flying back and forth, I went out with my bf and he got me my birthday gift today! We went up to Ellwood and picked up the Remington 870 Express, 20ga, 26" barrel (the guys/gals at Ellwood are great and well worth the 1.5 hour drive for major firearm-related purchases!)

I tried out the 870 Express Youth and the Mossberg 500 also. The 870 Express Youth has a 21" barrel (was looking for a longer barrel) and the Mossberg was actually quite a bit flimsier in the action than the 870 (is that normal?)... so I picked the 870 Express (not Youth) and I'll get the stock cut down to better fit me. I will be picking up some sort of recoil pad and looking waayy more into the different types of shot (so much learning to do!), so thanks again for all the recommendations!

I appreciate the posts and will have to go back and re-read many of the posts over again so I can get a better handle of all of the information.

Cheers!
 
I'm partial to 20ga. for ladies, in particular semi's. My pick would be a Benelli Montefeltro, and they can be had with a youth/ladies stock. 20ga. Shotguns are scaled better in proportion for a ladies build, and any increased recoil due to a lighter smaller gun is negated by the fact that it would likely fit you better. They also generally handle better (lighter, smaller) if you have less muscle to swing things around, especially so the Montefeltro's with their intertia drive.
 
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do you actually have anything constructive to add, like '870 Expresses recoil more than Wingmasters'? or are you just here in defense of your Fudd buddy - who seems to have run out of third grader insults?

Nope, sorry, I don't know Win/64. I'm just reading the thread, and said what came to mind. I'm sure a hundred others have read the thread and thought the same, but didn't bother posting.

Congrats to the creator of the thread on your buy, a good one, have fun!
 
Oh boy... It's only my second day on the forum and already I'm stirring up trouble :nest: Errrmmm... forget that I said anything...:runaway:

Don't stop posting. I think everyone here is getting a bit of cabin fever

or every one is thinking about SPRING

good luck with your new purchase :D and welcome;)
 
what caught my eye in the first post is that she refers to a Mini-14 as strong recoil. thats why i recommended a Knoxx: nothing else makes quite such a dramatic difference in felt recoil.
That's not quite what was said in the first post. She said she owned a .22 and experienced stronger recoil from a Mini 14 and an M14 relative to her rimfire not that she found it overwhelming or objectionable. She wanted a comparison with what she experienced. If she can shoot an M14 then she has no need for gimmick stocks but should stay away from heavier shotgun loads at least in the beginning until she develops proper stance and shooting form.

What you posted initially was the highspeedlowdragmallninjatacticool version with a full pistol grip stock. The pistol grip stock is better suited for a shotgun when it is used like a rifle such as for deer or turkey hunting or three-gun competition. They are ill-suited for wingshooting due to the position of the back hand which inhibits a smooth swing and proper gun mount. The tactical version is also entirely useless on a Mossberg due to the safety position.

The more traditional Comp Stock would be better in this regard however they add more weight to the back end of a gun and can make the gun whippy. Knoxx didn't invent recoil reducing stocks. They have been around for decades in one form or another. They have a limited popularity in clay shooting, mostly among trapshooters, and are very rare in the hunting fields. I would only suggest a gimmick stock to a new shooter after all other avenues were exhausted and recoil remained a serious issue.

Note cdnchick, don't worry about "stirring up a hornet's nest." Congratulations on your new acquisition. They are good reliable shotguns and I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
 
That's not quite what was said in the first post. She said she owned a .22 and experienced stronger recoil from a Mini 14 and an M14 relative to her rimfire not that she found it overwhelming or objectionable. She wanted a comparison with what she experienced. If she can shoot an M14 then she has no need for gimmick stocks but should stay away from heavier shotgun loads at least in the beginning until she develops proper stance and shooting form.

What you posted initially was the highspeedlowdragmallninjatacticool version with a full pistol grip stock. The pistol grip stock is better suited for a shotgun when it is used like a rifle such as for deer or turkey hunting or three-gun competition. They are ill-suited for wingshooting due to the position of the back hand which inhibits a smooth swing and proper gun mount. The tactical version is also entirely useless on a Mossberg due to the safety position.

The more traditional Comp Stock would be better in this regard however they add more weight to the back end of a gun and can make the gun whippy. Knoxx didn't invent recoil reducing stocks. They have been around for decades in one form or another. They have a limited popularity in clay shooting, mostly among trapshooters, and are very rare in the hunting fields. I would only suggest a gimmick stock to a new shooter after all other avenues were exhausted and recoil remained a serious issue.

i missed the second post where she said she wanted this for wing shooting. for general purpose shotgunning pistol grip stocks are fine - many people use them. i even clarified if she wants this for clays it would be unsuitable, and recommended she try the 870 Express 20ga with the standard stock and if she needs further recoil reduction to add a SpecOps or Compstock.

a .223 Mini-14 is anything but strong recoil.
she didnt say she found shooting an M1A pleasant, just that she had fired one. a woman being capable of shooting an M1A, and shooting one comfortably without developing poor shooting habits are two different things entirely. for new shooters - especially those worried about recoil - it is best to eliminate it as a factor entirely.

there is nothing 'mall ninja' or 'gimmicky' about adding a Knoxx stock to a gun. a stock that soaks up 90% of the recoil of a gun is a highly practical upgrade for the recoil sensitive.

this is mall ninja - completely nonfunctional stock just to look cool, breaching device, two sidesaddles :runaway:, heat shield, eotech, etc:
Rem870Tactical.jpg


initially i loathed the Knoxx stocks, thought they were ridiculous and made Fudd statements about them (and plastic in general) quite similar to what some of you are making. then i actually bought one and became a total convert. shooting a shotgun with practically zero recoil is quite amazing, and i believe that this is far more beneficial to new shooters than the disadvantages of a pistol-grip stock for some types of shooting. for a general purpose shotgun i will continue to recommend the Knoxx stocks. once they become completely comfortable with shooting and are no longer intimidated by recoil, they can be worked up to more formal guns.

my g/f and her friends were very intimidated by shotguns at first. with the exact gun i posted, they actually started enjoying themselves and taking an interest in guns and shooting that they didnt have when just shooting my doubles or full-sized traditional pumps. $150 is a very cheap price of admission for getting a girl to change her mind and actually take an interest in an activity that she was originally intimidated by and disinterested in.
 
I guess I should clarify some of my earlier statements...

In shooting the Mini-14, the recoil is not significant enough that it bothers me (though it's obviously a stronger recoil than my .22). With the M14, the first time I ever shot it, the recoil was quite strong however I have since shot it numerous times after and the kick wasn't too bad... may have been due to correcting some postural issues and technique but the recoil is not as strong when I shoot it now (again, totally aware of the significantly stronger recoil than my .22).

As for recoil for the 870, I'll have to take her out for a spin and see what she's like... might be perfectly fine without any sort of recoil dampening devices as long as the length of pull is fitted properly to me. I'll let you know!
 
Just make sure your posture and your fit are good with the gun, use lighter loads to begin and get used to the recoil first.

I like the idea of a 20 gauge. A 20 is plenty, and you can go magnum loads down the road if you feel the need for more shot.
 
shooting a shotgun with practically zero recoil is quite amazing, and i believe that this is far more beneficial to new shooters than the disadvantages of a pistol-grip stock for some types of shooting. for a general purpose shotgun i will continue to recommend the Knoxx stocks. once they become completely comfortable with shooting and are no longer intimidated by recoil, they can be worked up to more formal guns.
There are more practical and effective ways to introduce new shooters to recoil than the Knoxx spring toy particularly the ones with the pistol grip which inhibits proper shotgun form and stance. For a new shooter the Knoxx becomes a crutch that they depend on instead of learning how to shoot a gun properly. When presented with a shotgun that doesn't have the magic device you have to start all over again.

my g/f and her friends were very intimidated by shotguns at first. with the exact gun i posted, they actually started enjoying themselves and taking an interest in guns and shooting that they didnt have when just shooting my doubles or full-sized traditional pumps. $150 is a very cheap price of admission for getting a girl to change her mind and actually take an interest in an activity that she was originally intimidated by and disinterested in.
Any shooter "intimidated" by shotguns who needs a Knox would be better served by learning from someone who understands recoil dynamics, gun fit, stance and how to introduce a recoil shy person to shotgunning.

The Knoxx and other spring toy stocks are IMO a poor substitute for proper and patient instruction.
 
good luck 'patiently instructing' someone who is completely turned off by recoil and doesnt consider it fun at all. some people are just really recoil sensitive and its the biggest consideration for them.

..and now Knoxx stocks are 'spring toys'? nice to see you showing your true Fudd colors at last.
i posted experience of what worked to make a very recoil-sensitive shooter happy and interested in the sport. id paint a gun fluorescent pink if it made her more interested in the sport. 'proper form' and 'traditional wood stocks' are meaningless if the person is completely disinterested in shooting.
why are you insistent on discounting a recoil-reducing stock's merits? strangely they are one of the most popular selling aftermarket stocks and people who own them are very happy with them.
im sorry that they offend your personal ideals :rolleyes:
 
FWIW

My wife has both a 12 and 20 gauge pump. She never uses the 20 anymore unless we are walking long distances because it's lighter. She would like 20 O/U for that though...

She shot a 12g semi last fall and is saving up the pennies for a new gun for the summer.

as others have stated, proper fit and stance will have the greatest reduction in recoil. I have never shot any of the fancy shmancy recoil pads so I can't give an opinion on them.
 
good luck 'patiently instructing' someone who is completely turned off by recoil and doesnt consider it fun at all. some people are just really recoil sensitive and its the biggest consideration for them.

..and now Knoxx stocks are 'spring toys'? nice to see you showing your true Fudd colors at last.
i posted experience of what worked to make a very recoil-sensitive shooter happy and interested in the sport. id paint a gun fluorescent pink if it made her more interested in the sport. 'proper form' and 'traditional wood stocks' are meaningless if the person is completely disinterested in shooting.
why are you insistent on discounting a recoil-reducing stock's merits? strangely they are one of the most popular selling aftermarket stocks and people who own them are very happy with them.
im sorry that they offend your personal ideals :rolleyes:

A Knox Stock may be fine for shooting pumpkins, slugs or turkey loads. At stationary targets But it is useless for Wing or Clay shooting. In order to shoot well at flying targets you need a proper "cheek weld" for correct target acquisition and sighting plane. You can't do that with a Knox style stock.
 
good luck 'patiently instructing' someone who is completely turned off by recoil and doesnt consider it fun at all. some people are just really recoil sensitive and its the biggest consideration for them.
I've had a great deal of luck with females ranging in age from 11 to late 60's including a couple who'd had bad experiences with lunkhead boyfriends who thought it would be funny if their girlfriend shot a 3" magnum out of a light pump gun. Those are the ones that are usually the most afraid of recoil. It takes time and patience and doesn't need gimmicks.

..and now Knoxx stocks are 'spring toys'? nice to see you showing your true Fudd colors at last.
My reference to "spring toy" applies to Knoxx, Gracoil, Hydracoil and the Precision Fit stock which is also known in these parts as the Terry Fox stock.

why are you insistent on discounting a recoil-reducing stock's merits? strangely they are one of the most popular selling aftermarket stocks and people who own them are very happy with them.
im sorry that they offend your personal ideals :rolleyes:
I discount them for new shooters or as a replacement for proper shooting stance and form. I believe they are unnecessary in most cases and should be the very last option for recoil issues after everything else has been tried.
 
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