12g slugs for stopping Grizzlies and Polar Bears

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filmbeargun

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All: I am putting together a bear gun over the winter, so I wonder what the consensus is for 12g slugs from a smooth bore 18-20inch barrel for immobilizing a Grizzly or Polar bear by breaking major bones?

This is for close-range defensive use only, (less than 25M) a very different task than bear hunting from a distance.

Evidently, good preventative measures like smell signature control, bear-proof food containers, perimeter electric fences and alarms and choice/use of terrain, crack flares and bear spray (OC), and using rubber slug to discourage curious yearling bears at 50M, mean that shooting a bear is unlikely, but if I have to, what are the best slugs to use?

I have heard of Brenneke slugs, but I am unsure exactly what this means...

I will be using slugs in a 6 or 8 shot Mossberg 590 or 590A1, with Ghost Ring or red dot sights, as that is what I am shopping for now second-hand.


I am importing a Knoxx SpecOps stock to ease the pain of all this, so shooting 3" slugs may also be an option.

Any cartridges you reccommend would have to be available off-the-shelf locally, as shipping costs are very high here, North of 60.


What do you think?

No flames please!

I really need to know what people are using!

filmbeargun
 
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A Private Contractor for MNR swears by Federal Slugs with Barnes Expander Sabot Slugs ... the 3/4 oz. ( 325 gr. ) slugs , 2-3/4" loads, they still retain 2165 ft. lbs of energy at 50 yds (2630 at the muzzle) Federal 's Order # P152XS.
Should be available in most of the better & ammo shops. Barnes is one of the bullets of choice for both Federal & Weatherby premium ammunition. If it's your tail on the the line... I think I'd go for the premium stuff too !
 
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Bear Gun

Up here we use rifles , we are regularly contracted to do bear security by various people & companies. We use .458 Win. mag. , .375 H&H, .416 Rem. mag. and my girlfriend uses a .35 Whelen. You are right that breaking big bones is the best way to stop a charging bear ( stop all forward motion ) and we feel that shotgun slugs are not the right choice. If you are protecting yourself or someone right next to you , you can wait for a very close shot, however if you are there to protect other people that are not right with you but with in 50 - 75 yrds. on a broadside shot at a charging bear I would never rely on a shotgun regardless of what kind of slug. We carry pistols that fire bear bangers, screamers, and whistlers for scaring , firing cracker shells in your shotgun is the best way to ruin your brl. as they are corrosive and you never are sure if the wad went out the brl. or not. We carry rifles on a daily basis for Polar bears and have found that the worst ones are the sub adult males as far as aggresive approaches. This is just my opinion, in the 30 years I have been doing this I would not even consider using a shotgun to protect other people.
take care
pounder
www.nature1sttours.ca
 
birdfrite round experiences? shotgun for close range stuff

Great information! Thanks!

Does anyone have experience with Birdfrite flash-bang cartridges by Pains-Wessex (the marine flare people), as it is pitched as using smokeless propellant which absorbs less humidity in the field?

I am more-or-less stuck using a pump-action shotgun, primarily for Grizzlies, as i am not capable of going from chamber empty to fire fast enough with anything else. I also have to be able to fire rubber slugs, "Strike Two" brand, which is easy to do with a sidesaddle on a pump gun, leaving 7 lead slugs in the magazine tube...

Thanks all!
 
link to US Forest Service bear cartridge comparison

Thanks all!

In the US, The Firing Line posted the following comparison using a bear hide simulator of various projectiles in Juneau, Alaska, by the US Forest Service. Oddly enough, it treats shot gun slugs as a separate category, although the 1oz 12g 2 3/4" slugs penetrated 15" at 15yds, very close to the penetration of a .458 Magnum rifle round. My guess is that 3" slugs might do even better...

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf
 
filmbeargun said:
Thanks all!

In the US, The Firing Line posted the following comparison using a bear hide simulator of various projectiles in Juneau, Alaska, by the US Forest Service. Oddly enough, it treats shot gun slugs as a separate category, although the 1oz 12g 2 3/4" slugs penetrated 15" at 15yds, very close to the penetration of a .458 Magnum rifle round. My guess is that 3" slugs might do even better...

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf
Click to expand...

In most tests I've seen, plus numerous less scientific test I've conducted myself, indicates 12" of penetration for a 12 gauge slug. There does not seem to be an improvement, from my testing, between the penetration of the 3" or the 23/4" ammo, probably because heavier - slower slugs are loaded in the 3" hulls. I still use the 3" rounds when I carry a shotgun in hopes that the heavier slugs will produce a larger wound channel.

I totally disagree however that the .458 Winchester Magnum will only show 15" of penetration. I have shot this cartridge enough to know that, with decent bullets, one can expect a minimum of 3' of penetration in game. Further - in African hunting circles where the .458 has had it's problems due to it's short case length, compressed powder charges, and heat - ballistically a 500 gr bullet @ 2100 fps is the "ideal penetrator on the really big game such as elephant and hippo. Although I concede that solids are often the projectiles of choice over there, it remains true that the .458 offers remarkable penetration in game. It is my opinion that a .458 loaded with 450 gr. X bullet would simply be devestating on any bear.

I conclude that when testing was done by the US Forest Service, the .458 results were incorrectly recorded, as even light weight high velocity bullets would penetrate deeper than 15". Perhaps 15" was the minimum penetration allowed in that test - as shotguns and probably handgun rounds would of also been tested - so it may of been simply a pass or fail type of test.

I just had a quick look at the text from Filmbeargun's link. Actually the test states the .458 has the deepest penetration of all cartridges tested and out penetrated the .460 Weatherby - but incorrectly stated the reason why. They said because the Weatherby had a 10 grain lighter bullet - when in reality the high velocity of the Weatherby would of reduced the penetration of it's bullet.
 
I am importing a Knoxx SpecOps stock to ease the pain of all this, so shooting 3" slugs
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I find this concept amusing, since regardless of the punishing recoil a slug-gun would give me, I am sure it is less painful than a hungry bear chomping down on an extremity.:D

Then again, to practice your aim, it would surely help to have less recoil.:p
 
You need one of these,
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigBore_levrAction/1895GS.htm

with one of these,
http://www.xssights.com/store/rifle.html

and some of these (540gr, super hard cast)
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp


I respect your need for rubber bullets and bear bangers but those only discourage bears. Any bear bent on finding a meal won't be disuaded by rubber and noise.

A 12ga is formidable by any account but not where big, dangerous game are concerned. You don't hear of anyone hunting big game in Africa with 12ga slugs and for good reason. You need "stem to stern" penetration to break bone and create as much KO factor as possible. .375 H&H is considered minimum in Africa, .416 Rigby would be better, 45-70 would just barely makes the grade. The Marlin Guide gun would work great for quick follow-ups, is small and portable, in stainless less maintainance, and most importantly easy to shoot accurately. JMHO

Here's an interesting read on penetration,
http://www.theboxotruth.com/
 
Less than 25 metres, a well placed 12 ga slug in the head or chest will stop any living creature on earth.
 
I would rephraze that statement to..... "With a properly constructed 12 gauge slug" etc........

Most foster stlye slugs are not constructed with hard enough material to penetrate heavy bone.

I used to carry a shotgun for bear defense but now I carry my Marlin 1895GS with 550gr hard cast Crater's @ 1600fps.
 
So I have a 2003 1895GS and would like to get a box of the Garret cartridges, but it says only suited for Marlin with a Ballard barrel? Where do I get a Ballard barrel? Or is it a type of barrel used on the modeern lever guide duns?
 
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I am importing a Knoxx SpecOps stock to ease the pain of all this, so shooting 3" slugs


I find this concept amusing, since regardless of the punishing recoil a slug-gun would give me, I am sure it is less painful than a hungry bear chomping down on an extremity.

Then again, to practice your aim, it would surely help to have less recoil.
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x2 It's not likely you will be laying down suppressive fire on a bear, a few shots is all your likely to get off or need, besides you will be so amped up you won't feel the 'punishment' as you so eloquently put, until much later.
 
Backwoods said:
So I have a 2003 1895GS and would like to get a box of the Garret cartridges, but it says only suited for Marlin with a Ballard barrel? Where do I get a Ballard barrel? Or is it a type of barrel used on the modeern lever guide duns?
Click to expand...

Ballard refers to the cut type of rifling used in these guns, including yours.

AFAIK Garrett will not ship to Canada.:mad:
 
Silverado said:
Ballard refers to the cut type of rifling used in these guns, including yours.

AFAIK Garrett will not ship to Canada.:mad:
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Thanks. Good to know. Is there any import limitations on ammo? I have a friend who lives in New Mexico who could ship them up here. I've never tried to import that kind of thing before. (not trying to jack the thread, but it seems pertinent since the issue was brought up) :)
 
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