- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Colin said:
This is an excellent point - shotgun ammo does not stand up to weather very well, it wouldn't hurt to shoot off or swap out any rounds that start to look "old" every month or so.
12g slugs for stopping Grizzlies and Polar Bears
- Thread starter filmbeargun
- Start date
This is an excellent point - shotgun ammo does not stand up to weather very well, it wouldn't hurt to shoot off or swap out any rounds that start to look "old" every month or so.
BIGREDD said:A well thought out shot might be wishful thinking when Ursus Bigfarging teethus is coming for you at 50 feet per second!
Your .458 gives about 4000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.... so do sabot slugs... the brennekes are around 3300 foot pounds... I think a salvo of slugs will do the job... probably just one good/lucky one would do the job...
So you are saying that jerking your pump action off like a hormone ravaged schoolboy and hoping to get one "good/lucky" shot is good? My point is that you maybe will get only one shot off, and the salvo capability will be useless. Unless, like Why Not? suggested a while back, one is being charged by a herd of grizzlies.
The .458 will actually have a muzzle energy of ~4450 ft-lbs and 142.86 lb-ft/s of momentum.
The top Remington 12g load gives 3006 ft-lbs and 109.87 lbs-ft/s of momentum from its 437gr (1oz) slug. This is load SP12MRS.
The top Remington Sabot load gives 3086ft-lbs and 104.50 lbs-ft/s of momentum from a 385gr slug.
That is an advantage of around 40% in energy and 30% in momentum for the .458 WM. The .458 is so superior that they aren't even comparable.
I doubt there is a single guide in Alaska using a 12g to go into the alder thickets after a wounded bear. I would bet that the .375 H&H, .416 Rem Mag and .458 Win Mag would cover the majority of guides' choices. I would do as the pros do. They probably get more action in one season than you and I will in our entire lifetime.
they hand the client the pump gun to go into the alders after the wounded bear
All: Thanks for your posts. My title is a little cheeky, but wounding a bear is a big no-no here and in Alaska. Hence the popularity of bear spray....
For reasons related to magazine capacity, ability to go from chamber empty to fire quickly, I have to stick with a 12 guage shotgun, with Brenneke slugs if I can get them. Remington slugs if I can't.
The plan is to stay out of the bear's way ( I have 10 years experience at doing that!), and hold rubber slugs in a side-saddle if a curious yearling grizzly shows up, loading them directly into the Mossberg magazine tube (loaded with 7 lead slugs) as the 8th magazine round. If the rubber slug doesn't work at 50M with Ghost Rings, then I will practice to shoot the lead slugs at 20M, 15M, 10M with all 7 shots....I chose the Mossy because its shell-lifter is less likely to snag your finger, particularly when wearing gloves, when loading a shell into the magazine.
I have to stick with 12g as ammunition is frequently lost in flights in and out of bush areas, so it is best to stick with something that can be bought in any HBC or Alaskan village store. Typically, they have 12g slugs and
.30-06 cartridges. And sometimes not even that...
My Alaskan neighbours use stainless steel (SS) .45-70 lever guns or 12g SS pump guns. Mostly, we use our heads to stay out of the bear's way. We get a lot of practice at this, as on one 12 day bike trip I saw 22 bears, mostly using excellent Leica binoculars to figure out what they were up to from a safe distance. (300+M)
If we're not flying in, we carry bear spray which is way less problematic than shooting a bear. Sadly, it is getting harder to fly with bear spray other than on float aircraft (in the float cargo compartment) or in a separate chopper cargo compartment. On pressurized fixed wing aircraft bear spray is simply no go...which is why I got a PAL...
So, I am hot on the trail of used Mossberg 590's with Ghost Ring Sights, or 590A1's as my PAL came through today. So, PM me if you know of one for sale!
filmbeargun
All: Thanks for your posts. My title is a little cheeky, but wounding a bear is a big no-no here and in Alaska. Hence the popularity of bear spray....
For reasons related to magazine capacity, ability to go from chamber empty to fire quickly, I have to stick with a 12 guage shotgun, with Brenneke slugs if I can get them. Remington slugs if I can't.
The plan is to stay out of the bear's way ( I have 10 years experience at doing that!), and hold rubber slugs in a side-saddle if a curious yearling grizzly shows up, loading them directly into the Mossberg magazine tube (loaded with 7 lead slugs) as the 8th magazine round. If the rubber slug doesn't work at 50M with Ghost Rings, then I will practice to shoot the lead slugs at 20M, 15M, 10M with all 7 shots....I chose the Mossy because its shell-lifter is less likely to snag your finger, particularly when wearing gloves, when loading a shell into the magazine.
I have to stick with 12g as ammunition is frequently lost in flights in and out of bush areas, so it is best to stick with something that can be bought in any HBC or Alaskan village store. Typically, they have 12g slugs and
.30-06 cartridges. And sometimes not even that...
My Alaskan neighbours use stainless steel (SS) .45-70 lever guns or 12g SS pump guns. Mostly, we use our heads to stay out of the bear's way. We get a lot of practice at this, as on one 12 day bike trip I saw 22 bears, mostly using excellent Leica binoculars to figure out what they were up to from a safe distance. (300+M)
If we're not flying in, we carry bear spray which is way less problematic than shooting a bear. Sadly, it is getting harder to fly with bear spray other than on float aircraft (in the float cargo compartment) or in a separate chopper cargo compartment. On pressurized fixed wing aircraft bear spray is simply no go...which is why I got a PAL...
So, I am hot on the trail of used Mossberg 590's with Ghost Ring Sights, or 590A1's as my PAL came through today. So, PM me if you know of one for sale!
filmbeargun
1899 said:So you are saying that jerking your pump action off like a hormone ravaged schoolboy and hoping to get one "good/lucky" shot is good? My point is that you maybe will get only one shot off, and the salvo capability will be useless. Unless, like Why Not? suggested a while back, one is being charged by a herd of grizzlies.
The .458 will actually have a muzzle energy of ~4450 ft-lbs and 142.86 lb-ft/s of momentum.
The top Remington 12g load gives 3006 ft-lbs and 109.87 lbs-ft/s of momentum from its 437gr (1oz) slug. This is load SP12MRS.
The top Remington Sabot load gives 3086ft-lbs and 104.50 lbs-ft/s of momentum from a 385gr slug.
That is an advantage of around 40% in energy and 30% in momentum for the .458 WM. The .458 is so superior that they aren't even comparable.
I doubt there is a single guide in Alaska using a 12g to go into the alder thickets after a wounded bear. I would bet that the .375 H&H, .416 Rem Mag and .458 Win Mag would cover the majority of guides' choices. I would do as the pros do. They probably get more action in one season than you and I will in our entire lifetime.
All good... but we are not talking about guides or hunting... just bear protection.
longbranch*
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria,BC.
Slugs
Found "Challenger" brand slugs quite accurate, best is theyre made here in Canada eh!.
Geoff in Victoria,BC.
Found "Challenger" brand slugs quite accurate, best is theyre made here in Canada eh!.
Geoff in Victoria,BC.
death-junky
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Moose Jaw SK
i would go with a rifle in something bigger then 375h&h but if you don’t have the $$$$$ go with a 12 ga.
make sure that it is at least a 3" chamber or bigger.
talk to ya all later
Riley
make sure that it is at least a 3" chamber or bigger.
talk to ya all later
Riley
Pietro Beretta
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Ontario (G.T.A.)
If you plan on going up against/or plan on protecting yourself from a full grown Grizzly with a "SMOOTHBORE' shottie, you are a very foolish man.
Do yourself a favour and go to your local zoo. I went to the Toronto zoo last year and saw a full-size male grizzly bear (600+lbs) and I was speechless.
It was the largest animal I've seen in my life, and if I encountered one like the one I saw in the wild, I'd #### my f*ck'n pants.
If you got to use a shottie, it has to be a rifled-barrel. This is why.
Smooth-boar shotties can only effectively fire out rifled slugs. Rifled slugs are ####, and should only be used for target. Have you ever taken apart a rifled slug shell? I have. Its just a "cup-of-lead"....a 1.oz cup of lead. Hollow-point my ass!......its B.S.
Now on the other hand, If you got a rifled-barrel shottie you can use Winchester Supreme Partition-Gold (Hollow-point) 385 grain slug at 2,000 feet per second. That is what you need if you plan on taking a "crack" at a Polar/Grizzly bear.
Me personly I would use a Browning (BAR)semi-auto .30-06 Sprng. with 5-shot clip and one in the chamber. Or a bolt .300 Win Mag, or a non-restricted M-14 .308 Win with 180 grain fail-safes.
Do yourself a favour and go to your local zoo. I went to the Toronto zoo last year and saw a full-size male grizzly bear (600+lbs) and I was speechless.
It was the largest animal I've seen in my life, and if I encountered one like the one I saw in the wild, I'd #### my f*ck'n pants.
If you got to use a shottie, it has to be a rifled-barrel. This is why.
Smooth-boar shotties can only effectively fire out rifled slugs. Rifled slugs are ####, and should only be used for target. Have you ever taken apart a rifled slug shell? I have. Its just a "cup-of-lead"....a 1.oz cup of lead. Hollow-point my ass!......its B.S.
Now on the other hand, If you got a rifled-barrel shottie you can use Winchester Supreme Partition-Gold (Hollow-point) 385 grain slug at 2,000 feet per second. That is what you need if you plan on taking a "crack" at a Polar/Grizzly bear.
Me personly I would use a Browning (BAR)semi-auto .30-06 Sprng. with 5-shot clip and one in the chamber. Or a bolt .300 Win Mag, or a non-restricted M-14 .308 Win with 180 grain fail-safes.
great thread...I was always under the belief that a 12g was the end word in bear protection...when I was a kid, my Dad always had the 'winni -the-poo' marine defender in our kayak when we paddled in the outer islands. Had a few scary situations but never had to use it...I am still not convienced either way but this is very informative none the less. Especially hearing you 'norther n' boys opinion!
peckerwood
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- PalePony, Yukon
Both Paul Rogan and I agree that the simplest choice is often the best choice...if hunting then one uses the rifle at hand...but for Griz protection up here in the Yukon we both agree on the 12shottie...8 shot tube loaded with 4 shots of 000 buck and then slugs the rest of the tube.
Failing that one should have a pistol handy for yourself
I do however know of quite a few folks that swear by the Enfield 303...handy rifle with 10 shot mags that are detachable for reloading whilst running around a tree with the "humungous furry" close behind....ahhhhhhhhhh...spring
Failing that one should have a pistol handy for yourself
I do however know of quite a few folks that swear by the Enfield 303...handy rifle with 10 shot mags that are detachable for reloading whilst running around a tree with the "humungous furry" close behind....ahhhhhhhhhh...spring
interesting that one can't have a side arm (with proper PAL etc) ...what if you got charged and your horse reared or ya fell off the 4-wheeler, taking a leak and the shottie or rifle was out of reach...interesting indeed. I would ask those of you who spend considerable time in the bush your opinion...but then I don't want to aggrivate ya! A .44 mag sure would make a guy feel better. Gramps used to pack something like that as a 'back-up' when we would go fly fishing...
They've got rhinos and elephants there, too...Pietro Beretta said:
j/k!
I would have to agree with some of the earlier posts about being the "bear guard" at a set location way up north - open terrain, no trees, etc.
You aren't going to wait until Nanuq is in your face or on top of somebody to shoot, are you?
Nevermind the shotgun. Go with a big bore that's accurate and has a good long range. Many have been mentioned. Choose one. Get comfy with it. Shoot it at various ranges, and put a good variable scope on it.
You don't want to mess with Nanuq up close.
Monty said:Okay, agreed. But (unless I missed it) the scenario could be that bear moving aggressively towards somebody else who is maybe 200 yards from you (the defender).
sure in that scenario, which would be common with tree planters and such.... for me and my situation it is a static location around the diamond drill and the lease which is about 50 yds by 50 yds.
in his situation with filming movies and such I agree a rifle would be much better choice because between the caterers and "movie" stars there is a lot of ground to cover......
in prior threads mr. filbeargun has stated that he wants a shotgun so he can use less lethal munitions and bear bangers
