Much like George Washington and his "mob of terrorists" ????
Just because a justifiable rebellion against an oppressive and corrupt government does not succeed does not make it any less justifiable.
1885 Metis weapons?
- Thread starter Nyles
- Start date
Much like George Washington and his "mob of terrorists" ????
Just because a justifiable rebellion against an oppressive and corrupt government does not succeed does not make it any less justifiable.
A matter of perspective.
MY, My!
That is an interesting observation.
Perhaps we might consider the Rebel Colonists to the south of us too! Maybe they gave Louis Riel some ideas. At the least, we should collect the back taxes they owe to the Crown on all the Tea they have consumed without paying their fair and just assessment since 1776.
Just look what they did to poor Benedict Arnold, a soldier in uniform, who saw that his allegance was to the lawful Government and King. When that scurvy knave, Patrick Hale was strung up, much like Louis Riel, the unruly Rebels took offence because he got his just reward for his treacherous activities against his King and elected Government.
I think we should all get together, and take back the rightful Territory from those who have defied and rubbed our noses in their petty little revolution. What is the worst that could happen? Some Rebel tank commander might drive his Abrahams over your lawn, but that is only a little landscaping problem. If it was done during winter time, we could actually send out OUR Mountie on a Snowmobile to give out parking tickets, thus generating more revenue for us.
Think of the benefits! We could become the next U.S. State. As such, we would have access to mountains of firearms and equipment. No passports or enhanced driver's licences. Cheap gasoline, cars and trucks. NO GST OR HST. No Wheat Board or Milk quotas for farmers! California beaches with those half nude women. We could also qualify for Foreign Aid from Washington, and rebuild much like Japan or Germany, thus becoming a Superpower.
And, best of all, when those gum chewing Rebels leave, with their big grin on their faces, imagine all the War Surplus and Milsurps they will leave behind. Prices will be like they were in the good old days, the 50s and 60s, that we old farts have been telling you young guys about.
Or, we could do nothing, an inherent Canadian trait. The essential Canadian Sheep. Perhaps my little "tongue in cheek" missive is about as ridiculous at the quote that starts it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
On the other hand, if I were to agree with him, but then both of us would be wrong.
MY, My!
That is an interesting observation.Perhaps we might consider the Rebel Colonists to the south of us too! Maybe they gave Louis Riel some ideas. At the least, we should collect the back taxes they owe to the Crown on all the Tea they have consumed without paying their fair and just assessment since 1776.
Just look what they did to poor Benedict Arnold, a soldier in uniform, who saw that his allegance was to the lawful Government and King. When that scurvy knave, Patrick Hale was strung up, much like Louis Riel, the unruly Rebels took offence because he got his just reward for his treacherous activities against his King and elected Government.
I think we should all get together, and take back the rightful Territory from those who have defied and rubbed our noses in their petty little revolution. What is the worst that could happen? Some Rebel tank commander might drive his Abrahams over your lawn, but that is only a little landscaping problem. If it was done during winter time, we could actually send out OUR Mountie on a Snowmobile to give out parking tickets, thus generating more revenue for us.
Think of the benefits! We could become the next U.S. State. As such, we would have access to mountains of firearms and equipment. No passports or enhanced driver's licences. Cheap gasoline, cars and trucks. NO GST OR HST. No Wheat Board or Milk quotas for farmers! California beaches with those half nude women. We could also qualify for Foreign Aid from Washington, and rebuild much like Japan or Germany, thus becoming a Superpower.
And, best of all, when those gum chewing Rebels leave, with their big grin on their faces, imagine all the War Surplus and Milsurps they will leave behind. Prices will be like they were in the good old days, the 50s and 60s, that we old farts have been telling you young guys about.
Or, we could do nothing, an inherent Canadian trait. The essential Canadian Sheep. Perhaps my little "tongue in cheek" missive is about as ridiculous at the quote that starts it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.On the other hand, if I were to agree with him, but then both of us would be wrong.
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- Location
- Prince George. BC
My side fought on the loyalist side. So George and his band of terrorists would have been shot if my ancestores had won.
- Location
- Algoma region
I wonder if we can make a parallel of Canadian passive liberal self defeatism and the addition of flouride into our general water supply......?
Just a sidenote thought
Loyalists
So did mine friend. And the guy that wrote post #3, SMELLIE, his ancestors were rounded up by the Crown and hanged in Scotland, and banned from England. But his ancestors also fought and died for England, as mine did in the many Wars since 1776 that followed.
But, your ancestors didn't win, did they?
SO, LETS CUT THE CRAP, AND GET BACK ONTO THE ORIGINAL PREMISE OF THIS THREAD. FIREARMS, SPECIFICALLY THOSE USED BY THE METIS
.
So did mine friend. And the guy that wrote post #3, SMELLIE, his ancestors were rounded up by the Crown and hanged in Scotland, and banned from England. But his ancestors also fought and died for England, as mine did in the many Wars since 1776 that followed.
But, your ancestors didn't win, did they?
SO, LETS CUT THE CRAP, AND GET BACK ONTO THE ORIGINAL PREMISE OF THIS THREAD. FIREARMS, SPECIFICALLY THOSE USED BY THE METIS
.
Whether you consider Riel a hero or a traitor, why wouldn't you want to know what kind of firearms were used in a fairly major conflict in Canadian history? Isn't vintage military firearms the whole point of this board?
RE: the Fenians, a big part of how this came about was actually my doing a bit of research into Fenian arms and discovering some pretty interesting info. Apparently during the raid of 1866 they were carrying mostly Bridesburg-made Springfield 1863 rifle-muskets and a few Smith carbines. The weapons were confiscated by the US government afterwards but later returned after some political machinations. By the time of the second big raid in 1870 the Springfields had been converted to breechloaders under the Needham patent (.58 centerfire cartridge that actually loaded from the side).
RE: the Fenians, a big part of how this came about was actually my doing a bit of research into Fenian arms and discovering some pretty interesting info. Apparently during the raid of 1866 they were carrying mostly Bridesburg-made Springfield 1863 rifle-muskets and a few Smith carbines. The weapons were confiscated by the US government afterwards but later returned after some political machinations. By the time of the second big raid in 1870 the Springfields had been converted to breechloaders under the Needham patent (.58 centerfire cartridge that actually loaded from the side).
Nyles, the Needham's Patent BL rifles were, as most Fenian equipment provided by a thoughtful US Gummint, the relevant department being under the direction of a certain Mr. Hamilton Fish (one of those hereditary "power" names that keep cropping up in North American history.... and we say we have no nobility).
The Needham's Patent rifles exhibited a "smugglers' cut" under the first band: the rifle could be smuggled in 3 pieces. The rifles for the Fenians were actually modded like this; when the rifle was assembled, the cut was not visible.
A friend of mine sold one of these about 15 years ago for $300: nobody knew what it really was!
There are still a few around, just NOT on my rack! (I wish, I wish!)
Hope this helps.
.
The Needham's Patent rifles exhibited a "smugglers' cut" under the first band: the rifle could be smuggled in 3 pieces. The rifles for the Fenians were actually modded like this; when the rifle was assembled, the cut was not visible.
A friend of mine sold one of these about 15 years ago for $300: nobody knew what it really was!
There are still a few around, just NOT on my rack! (I wish, I wish!)
Hope this helps.
.
My father owned a Snider Enfeild that apparently had been given by the government to locals as part of a "home guard" during the Fenian raids.
Of course only WASP types were a part of this; but still, imagine a time in our country when the government provided arms to the populace for their protection.
Dad bought it as a working replacement for a damaged (broken stock) Snider Enfield that had once belonged to a member of the family who had been NWMP. I don't believe he was active during the Riel rebellion, he was only in the NWMP for a couple years till TB took him out of service.
My family was hard on stocks, an old hammered double 12 gauge, a Stevens Favourite in 32 RF and the Snider Enfield all had thier stocks broken.
Of course only WASP types were a part of this; but still, imagine a time in our country when the government provided arms to the populace for their protection.
Dad bought it as a working replacement for a damaged (broken stock) Snider Enfield that had once belonged to a member of the family who had been NWMP. I don't believe he was active during the Riel rebellion, he was only in the NWMP for a couple years till TB took him out of service.
My family was hard on stocks, an old hammered double 12 gauge, a Stevens Favourite in 32 RF and the Snider Enfield all had thier stocks broken.
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
Guys lets leave the politics out of the discussion or the thread will be locked.
Dorian Gray
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Good idea Steppenwolf!
This post isn't about Riel but i just wanted to mention (and you guys will probably call me an idiot for this) that i had a chance to buy a Fenian rifle (don't remember exactly which make), in pretty decent condition, for about a hundred bucks about a year ago. At the time, i didn't even know who the Fenians were and i certainlly didn't want to spend my hard earned cash on something that would have been "useless" to me. If only i would have known what i was passing up...
Dorian
This post isn't about Riel but i just wanted to mention (and you guys will probably call me an idiot for this) that i had a chance to buy a Fenian rifle (don't remember exactly which make), in pretty decent condition, for about a hundred bucks about a year ago. At the time, i didn't even know who the Fenians were and i certainlly didn't want to spend my hard earned cash on something that would have been "useless" to me. If only i would have known what i was passing up...
Dorian
moosehunter
Regular
- Location
- Prince George
Has anyone heard of an order by the NWMP in ft Regina ordering 400 Winchester 1873.s. Winchester making 300 and sub contracting 100 to the Eli Whitne cotton gin company. The 300 Winchesters made it there but Loui and his pearls getting the ones from the cotton gin company and these were used against ft Regina? Loui was still in possession of one of these which was handed down to Adrian Dumont.
History is taught by the winners and a lot of interesting stuff is buried.
The Métis hunted and traded freely north and south across the border. Gabriel Dumont had a buddy ranching in the Dakota badlands that reached out to him, “I hear you boys have a little skirmish, need a bit of help?”. He offered the loan of 2 Gatling guns. Dumont took this message to screwy Louis who declined the offer claiming the Lord would save them.
These guns would have been an absolute game changer and would likely have changed international boundaries as we know them.
The west is still struggling to get upper canadas boot off our throats.
Gabriel Dumonts hunting buddy? Theodore Roosevelt.
The Métis hunted and traded freely north and south across the border. Gabriel Dumont had a buddy ranching in the Dakota badlands that reached out to him, “I hear you boys have a little skirmish, need a bit of help?”. He offered the loan of 2 Gatling guns. Dumont took this message to screwy Louis who declined the offer claiming the Lord would save them.
These guns would have been an absolute game changer and would likely have changed international boundaries as we know them.
The west is still struggling to get upper canadas boot off our throats.
Gabriel Dumonts hunting buddy? Theodore Roosevelt.
Interesting thread I must have missed.
Louis Riel is my 1st cousin, 5x removed of course. I traced at least two other relatives to the original Red River Settlement through Metis Scrip documents and baptism/birth/death records.
Now I know where I get my "screw the gov" attitude from lol.
I too wish there was more documentation and deep dives into the Rebellion. What weapons were used, tactics etc. The details either were not written down or obfuscated over time and memory.
Our shared history is just as interesting, if not more so than the yanks.
Louis Riel is my 1st cousin, 5x removed of course. I traced at least two other relatives to the original Red River Settlement through Metis Scrip documents and baptism/birth/death records.
Now I know where I get my "screw the gov" attitude from lol.
I too wish there was more documentation and deep dives into the Rebellion. What weapons were used, tactics etc. The details either were not written down or obfuscated over time and memory.
Our shared history is just as interesting, if not more so than the yanks.
My wife is related to a bunch of those guys as well, the records from st. Boniface are really quite amazing.
Her family had red river scrip stolen too, well documented. I wonder how the liberals and WEF have let this slide?
Oh yeah, the Metis are assimilated, couldn’t rule for a white guy haha.
Her family had red river scrip stolen too, well documented. I wonder how the liberals and WEF have let this slide?
Oh yeah, the Metis are assimilated, couldn’t rule for a white guy haha.
The original question was a good one. Unfortunately most of the scholarly study associated with the rebellion is about the politics of it and not the actual fighting. As near as I can tell, there may have been a few long-range sporting rifles used by Riel's forces (ie. "buffalo rifles") and they did have a certain number of Winchester rifles. These seem to be mainly types chambered for the pistol cartridges (38-40, 44-40, etc). Dumont's personal rifle is such a carbine. If you've ever shot a 44-40 with BP ammo you will be aware of what short-range arms they are. At each battle a small proportion of the rebels were armed with these "modern" repeaters and would move around in an effort to affect the outcome. The descriptions of the battles make it pretty clear that most of the rebels had single shot muzzleloading types—probably a mix of old trade muskets and newer shotguns. On the other side, the militia was almost entirely equipped with long and short Sniders, with a token number of Martinis apparently present. The RCMP and many of the "mounted scouts" were armed with the Winchester M1876 "carbine" which was sort of military grade. Many of the local volunteers were armed with the old Sniders of the police, which were in storage at various forts. The Snider was perfectly adequate to defeat the motley crew assembled by Riel and was not actually obsolete—it was still in use in important fighting elsewhere in the empire at this time.
milsurpo
milsurpo
