200 yard challenge

Mystic Precision said:
however, my testing and development hints there may be more to discover. And applying my ideas in competition has certainly lead to positive results. Beyond theory, I like to do as much real world and peer to peer testing. There is alot of chatter on the internet, however, far fewer 'facts' work out in the real world.
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Can you reveal anything about the nature of the testing and development you've seen?
 
Improvements are a system with the barrel and ammo playing very important roles.

I am offering match barrels to my current specs for those interested. Several actions are supported. This spec has already proven to work really well for me in competition last season.

Continue to experiment with new ideas but can't confirm until spring when temps rise. Results last fall were very promising at 520m but that was only 1 test day.

The goal is to enhance LR consistency and accuracy. maybe solve the LR 22lr riddle????? At least, help me gain a better understanding.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Improvements are a system with the barrel and ammo playing very important roles.

I am offering match barrels to my current specs for those interested. Several actions are supported. This spec has already proven to work really well for me in competition last season.

Continue to experiment with new ideas but can't confirm until spring when temps rise. Results last fall were very promising at 520m but that was only 1 test day.

The goal is to enhance LR consistency and accuracy. maybe solve the LR 22lr riddle????? At least, help me gain a better understanding.

Jerry
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How long have you been serious about shooting .22LR shooting at long range?
 
scuba52 said:
You would think that after making rimfire ammo and all of the tech at our disposal that they could figure out a better priming compound and possibly better powder. If the vertical was figured out that little round will do some impressive things
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Trouble is, ammo makers are not incentivized to produce "better" ammo than they currently do. As long as it can cut the 10-ring of an ISSF 50M 3P target, the ammo gets graded as the companies finest offering. As can be seen, with "best edge" scoring, the CTC can be a little over 1/2" while still cutting a 10...



With Olympic and 3P shooting being the major market for "match" ammo, and benchrest being a low-volume, niche market, the ammo makers deem their product acceptable for it's intended purposes. The stringent quality control required to produce ammo to BR specifications would drive up the cost of production to unprofitable levels, given BR's low volume of sales (relatively). As an aside, ELR shooting with rimfire demands the same quality from the ammo as 50 yard BR competition... But are you going to pay $40+ a box for it? Federal abandoned manufacture of it's UltraMatch line of ammo, simply because it was not a profitable venture. The UM1 was some of the finest rimfire ammo ever produced, and there was clearly a demand for it among precision shooters. Not even good ol' American pride in an excellent product could keep it alive under the bean-counters scrutiny. The trouble with us consumers, we want it good, but we also want it cheap. Sure, there are some customers for whom which money is no object, but they alone cannot keep the lights on in a large manufacturing operation.

I've got some catching up to do in this thread, so I'll end with one last thing and post more later. A quote from Calfee several weeks ago:

"Friend gun fool Timo:

A lot of folks would love to have those lot numbers......better yet, they'd love to have the ammo, instead...

Timo, both Big Dog and Tom Wilkinson told me the same thing....

They both said that most lots of Lapua they've tested are simply not competitive.

Just like with Eley."

Bolding is mine for emphasis. This is the reality we are dealing with when it comes to ammo. Results achievable with the ammo most of us are able to get our paws on might not impress some, but those in touch with reality know when one is doing darn good with what they've got.
 
Hi Guys, how about we wait until the weather warms up and then we can share our joy or frustration at meeting the 200 yd challenge? That seems more productive than where this thread is going.....
I know I am certainly curious how well I can do and love the new challenge and looking forward to everyone's attempts and the opportunity to encourage each other.
 
Archie_james_c(2.0) said:
It’s a shame when you’re just itching to get out, but you know damn well you’re basically wasting any high end ammo you have shooting in cold temperatures eh? Oh well atleast we have the centrefires :d
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Yep... and it did try to heat up late Jan but then tanked into Feb.... GRRRR.

Oh well, more time to practise and test other projects.

Jerry
 
mineguy said:
Hi Guys, how about we wait until the weather warms up and then we can share our joy or frustration at meeting the 200 yd challenge? That seems more productive than where this thread is going.....
I know I am certainly curious how well I can do and love the new challenge and looking forward to everyone's attempts and the opportunity to encourage each other.
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Actually, kind of curious where this was heading..... :)

wrt to the thread, I hope that more confirmation of results will come when I can get out testing in the warmer temps. Last season ended very well but, it is always best to keep testing and create a larger body of data.

Last year it was over 5000rds of testing and 4 PRS matches with the new barrel spec. This season it will be a 2nd platform, more ammo, more groups and hopefully, a few more matches.

The goal is that 12" plate at 500

Fun stuff.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Actually, kind of curious where this was heading..... :)

wrt to the thread, I hope that more confirmation of results will come when I can get out testing in the warmer temps. Last season ended very well but, it is always best to keep testing and create a larger body of data.

Last year it was over 5000rds of testing and 4 PRS matches with the new barrel spec. This season it will be a 2nd platform, more ammo, more groups and hopefully, a few more matches.

The goal is that 12" plate at 500

Fun stuff.

Jerry
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Agreed. A 12" plate at 500 is worthy of a beer or two.......
 
mineguy said:
Agreed. A 12" plate at 500 is worthy of a beer or two.......
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And it ain't gunna happen with .22 LR...

Jerry, with all due respect, there's no ground to be gained playing around with barrel specs. 50 yard Bench Rest has already born action, barrel, and trigger specs that deliver peak rimfire accuracy. You may improve the Long Range Rifle platform over factory offerings (we all know factory barrels don't have what it takes, in general), but you will only be borrowing from Bench Rest, not innovating. You want the best platform for rimfire PRS? Take the new Turbo V-3 action with crescent shaped firing pin, fit it with the highest quality barrel blank you can find, execute the chambering perfectly with your favorite flavor of "match" chamber with maximum bullet engraving, bed it into your preferred stock, and properly fit/set a Harrell's MD. That's as good as the rifles get. Now we're back to the ammo...

The hurdle to overcome is clearly the limitations of mass-produced factory ammunition. Until somebody comes up with a way to "roll your own" at home to a higher quality specification than the factory stuff, we're plateaued with .22 LR.

If there is something to explore with respect to the ammo, I have some food for thought. If we were to do away with primers and utilize electronic ignition for a 100% powder charge (much of the propulsion force currently comes from the primer, approximately 33% as stated in this reference http://wwaccuracy.com/showthread.php?5702-2-problem&highlight=primer+charge), then we eliminate a considerable variable in the consistency of each round. The reference also states that a 0.03 grain variance in primer charge can equate to a 20 fps MV variance. With a laboratory grade scale, a home-reloader can achieve far more consistent powder charges in each round than a factory machine can.

Next, we need brass. Can somebody develop an at-home press so we can punch out our own brass from sheet stock? A single press head will give far more consistent brass dimensions than can be achieved in a factory processing millions of casings with multiple heads, trying feverishly to calibrate and maintain consistency between all of them as they wear. Even as your own press head wears, your "lots" will still be extremely uniform. Case trimmers exist for centerfire, no reason dies can't be made to hold .22 LR, and precisely consistent case length will be achieved.

Bullets... Maybe they can be supplied from a bullet maker, centerfire reloaders enjoy excellent quality and consistent bullets. For those with experience casting, how consistent are your boolits? Is it feasible to cast your own .22 LR?

A seating/crimping die should be straightforward to produce. Again, with a single loading head and very consistent brass, this operation will produce far more uniform results than a multi-head factory machine.

If you've ever taken apart a .22 round, you'll notice the powder charge still leaves quite a bit of case volume unused... Can we switch to steel casing with electronic ignition, load the powder to supersonic velocities, and use them fancy new Cutting Edge ELR bullets that are in the works? Hmmm... now we might be on to something ;)

As a side benefit, electronic ignition won't crush the rim, so casings have the potential to be reloaded after firing, now being fire-formed to the rifle's chamber. A neck sizing die should be easy to produce to prep the casing for reloading. If we're serious about squeezing more performance out of the .22LR cartridge, think long and hard about what I've just posted here.
 
The "2 % problem" thread is interesting reading. It should remind .22LR shooters just how elusive really good ammo can be.

In any case, there's something to be said about it being more productive to wait until the weather warms up. It can be a very frustrating time while waiting for the shooting range to be accessible. The last time I was able to shoot was in late November, and last year the road to the range wasn't passable until the end of April.

Jerry, if I offended you, I apologize.
 
Before selling the family car! I sold the dog and the dog house got the Cooper M57 first 35min owning this rifle produced a.277 @100m things are getting outa hand on marketing 22s least Cooper displays a test target before! You buy.
CenterX yields the best results for this particular rifle it’s still the yahoo behind the trigger! I’m looking at the new Bergara bolt action looks promising.
Buyer beware to much glamour for sale.
 
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