2007 M14S Barrel indexing problem (more pics added)

Woah guys!
I just want to know if there is anything we need to pay attention to here?
Safe to shoot?
Is this alignment OK?
The bedding seems fine and well done
The USGI stock is straight.
The barrel and gas system is canted over.

I guess this question is impossible to answer for you guys by looking at the pictures.
Perhaps I should be asking - Is there anything Peter should specifically be paying attention to prior to putting ammo through this rifle?
 
Riflechair said:
Woah guys!
I just want to know if there is anything we need to pay attention to here?
Safe to shoot?
Is this alignment OK?
The bedding seems fine and well done
The USGI stock is straight.
The barrel and gas system is canted over.

I guess this question is impossible to answer for you guys by looking at the pictures.
Perhaps I should be asking - Is there anything Peter should specifically be paying attention to prior to putting ammo through this rifle?
Click to expand...

The reason I say the barreled action looks low is because the bottom of the handguard is sitting flush against the stock and it is still too high - the handguard sticks up above the receiver - this is not correct. To trouble shoot this and the other alignment issues, do what the doc says and try the whole action in another stock and see if anything changes.

Is it still safe to shoot - in this configuration why would you want to when some simple trouble shooting can find the root of the problem/s?
 
just check that the flash hider castlenut did indeed get tightened, as i noticed that "peter" mentioned he felt it loose.
tighten that up and go shoot the thing.
I'll put 1000.00 down right now if i'm wrong, and tell you that anyone with experience that inspects that stock hands on is gonna tell you the same thing i have in my initial postings on the subject.
also, it is incorrect to try and guage a canted or out of index situation by looking at pictures of how the rifle fits a particular stock.

but what do i know..... i'm just some guy on the internet.
assuming the stock is straight and not warped
if the receiver is not bedded true horizontally, meaning the receiver is not dead on center from receiver heel to the stock ferrule when the bedding is done or when the connector lock recess is filled, the action will sit crooked. Evidence of this in a cursory inspection would reveal itself by the gas assembly plate not correctly aligning with the stock ferrule...... this situation is CLEARLY shown in the opening pics...... note the stock ferrules outside edge appears to be parrallel with the outside edge of the gas band plate but the ferrule is shifted clearly over to one side. If there was rotational disagreement between stock and barrel/gas system...... this picture would show opposing angles to the ferrule and gas band plate..... but in the pic they are clearly parallel.

my observations are that the stock needs to be millled out at all receiver bedding locations, including the side walls and re bedded using the correct bedding fixtures as outlined in the Jerry Kuhnhaussen 30 cal service rifle shop manual, Scott McDuff's bokk on NM conditioning or the vast amount of info on the net already...... or just put it in another stock.


Satain...... WWIII is correct, the red stuff is indeed copper based never seize compound, used on all barrels i install and yes...... shows up real well in photos no matter how much you try and clean the stuff off :D
 
Riflechair said:
Woah guys!
I just want to know if there is anything we need to pay attention to here?
Safe to shoot?
Is this alignment OK?
The bedding seems fine and well done
The USGI stock is straight.
The barrel and gas system is canted over.

I guess this question is impossible to answer for you guys by looking at the pictures.
Perhaps I should be asking - Is there anything Peter should specifically be paying attention to prior to putting ammo through this rifle?
Click to expand...

OK in my professional opinion;

-Its safe to shoot "with the stock like that"

-the bedding may look fine but its NOT. the gun was not inline with the stock when it was place in during the bedding process. "its very clear by the picture"

-Your stock is straight and GTG

-your barrel maybe canted too, but the bedding is still not right.

What does this mean, well your fine to shoot but if you want it to look right. Then rebed your gun and insure the barrel is centered in the stock. Bedding is a art form and alot of bedding I see looks like the crap in the National art gallery lol.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Dave
 
Pblatzz said:
The stock has not changed, see pic 2059 and compare to pic DSCF0143 (bottom). note the distance between the hand guard spring.
Click to expand...

What you say is irrelevant to my statement, I had just said it could not be related to the stock's bedding.
 
Barrel indexing

With due respect to all parties 1.this is a chinese barrel, over indexed? once, no amount of roll crimping is going to save it, all this USGI talk is fine for U.S parts. Chinese flash hiders vary greatly. Looks all the world like red loctite as final fix. Offering a grand and telling someone else to shoot your work sounds kinda cheesy. My first intro to M-14 was at FT. Bragg N.C '69 and has continued to date, IMHO if your concerned about your rep. replace the barrel, unless it is indeed locktited.
 
no disrespect , but this is incorrect.
The chinese product most american's have seen and had experience with are not the same rifles we have been working with in canada for the past decade.
You can in fact, roll peen a chinese m14 barrel, should it require it, using the same techniques taught to armorers having to perform the procedure to U.S. made barrels.

regardless, this particular rifle spoken of in this thread will be adorned with a new McGowen M1A barrel at some point in the not to distant future ;) , so continuing the thread is kinda moot ;)
 
Was the welding on that rifle done with a mig welder? Doesn't look characteristic of tig, with that blob with an indent in it, or that high bead. Nothing wrong with a mig, even if the metal does turn out to be chromoly, you just need to preheat the metal so that it doesn't cool too quickly and harden. They use mig on chromoly tubing all the time, but it has to be done right.
 
who "welded" or "unitized" that gas system, the weld looks to have been done with a mig machine and not tigged. and a little filing or sanding to blend it would have been nice.
 
respect

M14Doctor said:
no disrespect , but this is incorrect.
The chinese product most american's have seen and had experience with are not the same rifles we have been working with in canada for the past decade.
You can in fact, roll peen a chinese m14 barrel, should it require it, using the same techniques taught to armorers having to perform the procedure to U.S. made barrels.

regardless, this particular rifle spoken of in this thread will be adorned with a new McGowen M1A barrel at some point in the not to distant future ;) , so continuing the thread is kinda moot ;)
Click to expand...
When I say with due respect I mean it; I believe when I spoke to you a few years ago you were adamant about Chinese barrels being softer; prone to all sorts of mayhem.So I'm a little unclear,or are you in the barrel selling business?
 
many of us were hard sells on the chinese product in the early days, myself included. Most of the info availlable on these rifles came from U.S. forums and outfits like fulton. There were indeed soft steel issues with various chinese parts over the years but from reading the info availlable from US retailers back then, there was unfortunately a lot of misinformation out there..... that unfortunately gets used as ammo in discussions regarding the springfield M1A and the chinese M14s.
Since my first introduction to the chinese rifles in the late 90's , these soft metal issues have been proved to be a non issues. Much testing was done by the shop at smith enterprise on chinese parts for hardness equivalents and the chinese product successfully passed those test from what i have read. I do however have a couple of the old polytech barrels that are more of a blued finish and I would have to admit, these barrels do appear softer that what we have on the current 2000 and newer chinese product
Fast forward from my beginning days tuning up my own rifles and messing with stocks, till now, I've had hundreds.......several hundred through my hands in the past few years and can say that I do not believe in the soft metal myth ;) . There are still parts on these rifles that don't meet the grade but with each new boat that lands, brings a slightly improved version to our shores. :)

roll swaging is not a commonly required procedure with these barrels but it can easily be performed on a barrel deemed as a good canditate. Of course there will always be limitations when trying to recreate a serviceable torque shoulder on any M1A/M14 barrel, regardless of it's manufacture.

The owner of this rifle purchased it many months after it was worked on by me (some simple tweaks to an out of the box rifle) for it's original owner and the rifle that this thread is all about may have other issues at play, such as a gas cylinder that has splines that are not in agreement with top dead center of the gas cylinder, causing a tilted appearance. The final reindex of this barrrel was performed using the customer's supplied flash hider.

The owner of this rifle, obviously frustrated, was offered a fair purchase price to alleviate this 'lemon' from his hands, even though i felt no real obligation to do so as he is the second owner since it left my hands. He has since declined that offer and has instead chosen to be added to my preorder list for a mcgowen 18.5 medium barrel.
 
I'm suprised this thread has been resurected.
I'm buying the McGowen out of necessity not because I want to.
Look how far over the front sight needs to be drifted in order to get her on paper at 25m!
I actually need to drift her over more before I would have her zeroed. But why bother wasting the ammo. It's all wrong.

Headspace (based on an average of ten mic'd cases)
Before indexing: +0.020
After Indexing: +0.017

Thomas did offer to buy the rifle from me but I wasn't prepared to sell it at a loss (he was kind enough to offer me a way out which was good of him). I would never sell this rifle to someone in it's current condition (previous owner take note)

I'm back to square one but the new McGowen barrels have given me some hope..

http://www.mouldemedia.com/itemsForSale/M14/IMG_2051.JPG

sight.jpg

IMG_2035.JPG
 
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hardness

Glad to hear the barrels are now considered acceptable, I still have seven receivers 5 usgi bolts and no barrels as at one time I thought I didn,t want to chance them. Thanks for the info,new projects in the future.
 
lcardinal said:
Glad to hear the barrels are now considered acceptable, I still have seven receivers 5 usgi bolts and no barrels as at one time I thought I didn,t want to chance them. Thanks for the info,new projects in the future.
Click to expand...

Seven receivers and five USGI bolts?! You know, I could relieve you of one of each to lessen your burden if you'd like :D
 
Hehehe..... drop me a pm if you ever decide to sell any....

Oops! Didn't mean to hijack the thread! :p
 
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