22 Ammo shortage, specifically CCI shortage~vendors...what have you been told?

What is going on in this thread. I mean, I have had a strange thought or two over the last few years regarding ammo, but this is weapons grade tinfoil stuff here.

There is lots of .22lr available. I never have a hard time finding it. Never. For a while I was stockpiling, but then realized it doesn't matter, there is lots out there.

Is it CCI SV, nope. Too bad. But - lots of great plinking and lots of great match ammo.

Wow.
C
 
What is going on in this thread. I mean, I have had a strange thought or two over the last few years regarding ammo, but this is weapons grade tinfoil stuff here.

There is lots of .22lr available. I never have a hard time finding it. Never. For a while I was stockpiling, but then realized it doesn't matter, there is lots out there.

Is it CCI SV, nope. Too bad. But - lots of great plinking and lots of great match ammo.

pretty much my thoughts. am i happy with the price? nope. am i happy with the selection? nope. is there ammo available when i want to shoot? you bet. if i find some ammo i like (remington eley, remington match, CCI SV, etc) i will buy some because i know i cant get it on a whim. if i dont care what i shoot im not worried at all. i may not take my custom 10/22 out depending on the ammo but thats why the takedown is there.
 
Personally I think export of ammo From Canada TO the USA should be just as impossible as the other way around.
I heard from the clerk at LeBarrons last year that as soon as they got their shipment of ammo in a couple guys from NY came and bought the whole pallet. Shouldn't be having to supply them AND us with such limited quantities.....of cource the lead shortage isn't helping any either.
 
About two years ago there was a small, note, small, dip in the supply of US-made .22 stuff, in particular, CCI Stingers, used by the vast majority of those here with any of the black-rifle lookalikes and gallery rifle shooters, many of whom go through a thousand rounds in a weekend without any problems of the stuff.

After about three months, it all went back to normal, and has been since that time.

Since this has been a subject on other fora, mainly in the US, I asked around last weekend for stock-holdings of just four of our local gun dealers.

Here are the results, averaged out among the four -

1. CCI Stinger - 100,000 - VERY popular stuff.

2. Remington yellow box - 98,000

3. SK/Lapua - 88,200

4. RWS of all kinds - 56,000

5. Fiocchi - 22,000

6. Eley of all kinds - 80,000

7. Winchester subs - very popular - usually low stocks of around 8000 due to high demand - bear in mind that many one of us can walk in and buy them all if they needed to. My own limit is 5000 of any kind of .22LR.

Sales at all four average just under 13,000 rounds of .22 of all kinds per week. At our gun club Sunday morning shoot we sell around 1500 - sometimes more on a guest day. Our .22 rifle team each has permission to buy 5000 and hold 6000 rounds - buying them by batch lots from the NSRA store at Bisley where they have Lapua and Eley weekends for batch trialling. There are eight in our team, and they have never gone short.

So that's where all your .22LR ammunition is.

Right here in UK.

Sorry 'bout that, guys.

tac
 
22lr guy. .. why is ammo so hard to get? When ammo makers are making at the fastest pace ever? Dealers used to be able to buy all they want when they wanted and now they can't why? Where is it going? I offered a plausible explanation many think is nuts. It is nuts but it's plausible. I believe it but then I have seen evidence.

Where do you think all the surplus ammo is going since it's not hitting the resellers shelves?
 
Personally I think export of ammo From Canada TO the USA should be just as impossible as the other way around.
I heard from the clerk at LeBarrons last year that as soon as they got their shipment of ammo in a couple guys from NY came and bought the whole pallet. Shouldn't be having to supply them AND us with such limited quantities.....of cource the lead shortage isn't helping any either.

I find that hard to believe...
 
Okay - pretty new to the shooting scene. But in southern Ontario the only place I could find with stock bigger than 50 rd boxes was London Bulls Eye. Bass Pro in Vaughn had 50 rd boxes only last week. All local Cdn Tires, TSC stores were dry and had been for a while. Local Sail was clean out... a very frustrating weekend on the phone and driving around hopelessly. I caved and picked up two boxes of Fed 40grain at $49.99 for 500 and felt a bit of my soul disappear.
 
It is nuts but it's plausible.
the contradiction in that sentence alone pretty much proves that nothing you are saying is valid.

22lr guy. .. why is ammo so hard to get? When ammo makers are making at the fastest pace ever? Dealers used to be able to buy all they want when they wanted and now they can't why? Where is it going? I offered a plausible explanation many think is nuts. It is nuts but it's plausible. I believe it but then I have seen evidence.
yet NOBODY else has? speaking about rimfire and rimfire only 22LRguy said that CCI is currently making 4M rounds a day. so using that number lets someone want to go shooting. he goes through 500 rounds (on the low side honestly). now, 4M rounds a day is 14M a week (lets be honest that is including the weekend too. there is a good chance that all, if not a good chunk of the weekend days throughout the year are either closed or at reduced capacity for maintenance. but i am going with the example which is most in your favor). if just using my scenario of a weekend at the range there can be 28,000 people a week who do that (14M/500). doesnt that seem kind of low? using the very generous rate of 14M rounds a week from CCI for 52 weeks in a year (which is VERY generous) you are looking at a total of 728M. lets say that there are 5 manufacturers which make rimfire ammo at the same rate (again very generous) that is only 3.64B rounds a year. using the estimate of an outing being 500 rounds that would mean that in a YEAR there can be 7.28M outings of that fashion. it is estimated that there are 270M-310M firearms owners in the US. taking the low side of 270M. lets just say that only 5% of americans use .22LR ammo (HAHAHAHA thats funny isnt it. we all know its a lot more) that would mean that there would be 13.5M 22LR users in the US. so across those 13.5M users there is only enough ammo for 7.28M outings? seems like there will be a shortage doesnt it.

that example above makes your argument as strong as possible while mine as weak as possible. even with those numbers there is a huge defect in ammo.

lets do a more realistic calculation. lets say that the average person uses 500 rounds of 22LR ammo a month (again this is average there are people who use a hell of a lot more and other who use less). lets also say that 20% of american firearm owners would fall under this category. also using 290M as the number of firearms uses in the US (mid point of estimates) and still saying that there are 5 companies which produce .22 rimfire ammo in the quantities we are speaking about. that would mean:
- each of those people would use 6k rounds a year on average.
- there are 58 million people which fall into this category for a total of 348B rounds a year
- 69.6B rounds each company
- and being very generous and saying that they operate 365 days a year would give you a total of 190M rounds a day would need to be made by EACH company.

now, you can nitpick at my numbers all you want. however, these are off by 2 orders of magnitude from current production levels. even if you take only 10% of my estimate that is still almost 5 times the current production level. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE HAVE ISSUES GETTING RIMFIRE AMMO!

so, you are here sprouting conspiracies with no facts to support your claims. i am using simple math and conservative numbers (to show my point of view, generous to show yours) and the numbers all back me up. oh, and this doesnt even factor in exporting to other countries such as.... i dont know.... canada (and the rest of the world). you are wrong. at this point i cant even say that you have an opinion. opinions have to be somewhat plausible. yours are so far from that with not a shred of proof that they are nothing more than ignorance.

Where do you think all the surplus ammo is going since it's not hitting the resellers shelves?
ammo which is made for the military and then sold to consumers when they have an excess amount is called surplus ammo. the military doesnt really use .22lr. thus there is no surplus .22lr ammo.
/facepalm
 
Okay - pretty new to the shooting scene. But in southern Ontario the only place I could find with stock bigger than 50 rd boxes was London Bulls Eye. Bass Pro in Vaughn had 50 rd boxes only last week. All local Cdn Tires, TSC stores were dry and had been for a while. Local Sail was clean out... a very frustrating weekend on the phone and driving around hopelessly. I caved and picked up two boxes of Fed 40grain at $49.99 for 500 and felt a bit of my soul disappear.
keep an eye out for when the site sponsors get stock. give them a call and see when they are getting stuff in. when they get a shipment buy some. once you have a stockpile of at least 5k rounds it isnt as much of a concern and you can wait for the better deals. in general most retail stores wont sell rimfire ammo by the brick (500) unless it is bulk ammo. for all the mid range stuff its usually 50 or 100 rounds in a box.

edit:
...sorry about the double post. i tried to delete but there is no option.
 
^I find this nearly impossible to believe. I've never heard/read anything about this even being a possibility...let alone, there being any evidence to support it. CCI's site claims that the majority of their market is commercial. I am genuinely puzzled by the shortage as it is though. If ammo was hitting the shelves then being swept-up by eager hoarders...that's one thing. The fact that it's barely trickling into stores or distributors in North America...that I don't get. While the government conspiracy seems VERY far-fetched to me...I can't help but feel there is some pc. of the puzzle missing here. It would be interesting to be a "fly on the wall" in the CCI head office...being the one who decides who gets the reported "4-million-rounds-a-day". I have to wonder if that much CCI 22 ammo has come to Canada in the last year.

Its amazing how some people are programed to say "conspiracy or tinfoil hat" when someone metions government corruption
Or just laying down straight facts about corrupt elements with government and agenices

Dizzy is right, they are also buying up 7.62x39 surplus and 223. Hollow point
Also just tryed to ban the green tips, because they couldnt take there ar-15s
And/or "military assault rifles"

Is obviously there president does not want the american people armed.

Have you read the tsa pamplets about veterans, patriots and constitutionalists
About being suspected terrorists?

If you spend sometime listening and reading
And wondering why certain affordable ammo cannot be found, insted of being
"Puzzled" get yourself informed.
 
Its amazing how some people are programed to say "conspiracy or tinfoil hat" when someone metions government corruption
Or just laying down straight facts about corrupt elements with government and agenices

Dizzy is right, they are also buying up 7.62x39 surplus and 223. Hollow point
Also just tryed to ban the green tips, because they couldnt take there ar-15s
And/or "military assault rifles"

Is obviously there president does not want the american people armed.

Have you read the tsa pamplets about veterans, patriots and constitutionalists
About being suspected terrorists?

If you spend sometime listening and reading
And wondering why certain affordable ammo cannot be found, insted of being
"Puzzled" get yourself informed.

Working on that C18cz858....but I do listen and read...and I've heard nothing compelling to support dizzy's assertion. Granted, I'm a busy father of 3 with a full time job and family responsibilities outside my own home too..so..trying to make sense of a 22 ammo shortage is fairly low on the list of priorities. lol However, I'd gladly read anything you'd care to send or links you'd like to post here. I thought starting a thread like this might drag into the conversation some people in THIS country who make part of their living selling ammo. Strikes me as being the most credible source of information one might find in Canada.
 
Dizzy is right, they are also buying up 7.62x39 surplus and 223.

wait...:
1) surplus ammo is ammo which the government sells from military stock because they have an excess of it.
2) so they already own it, but they decide to sell it anyways. so it goes into the stores and is marked up by the retailer and put on shelves.
3) then they are government shadow agents in place who will buy it right away at that marked up price and give it back to the government.
4) .... where it is once again excess and the process starts at 1) again?

wouldnt it make more sense to not release the surplus in the first place? all that chain of events would do is inject a lot of funds into the firearm community from repeatedly giving profits to gun retailers. OMG THAT is the conspiracy! the obama government is actually trying to save the firearm industry. see... the majority of both the house and senate are republican controlled. for two years prior to that the senate (or was it the house i always confuse the two) was republican controlled. but since what we are seeing is the result of the "administration" (aka obama) and not the people who... i dont know... control the vast majority of the government (especially the financial stuff), that would mean that its actually the republicans which are trying to do this to drum up support from their base about this issue!

do you people not understand how stupid your ideas sound when simple logic is applied to them? just up this page is a novel posted by me which has some very simple math and logic which shows why there is the rimfire shortage we are seeing (this is the rimfire forum after all. i concentrated on that). so on the one hand you have accusations, conspiracy, and ideas devoid of any form of logic. on the other hand you have very simple math and very simple logic. using either it is easy enough to disprove what you are saying.

also, for your own good you might want to think twice about saying things like this. the majority of people think its crazy (because it is). just like how the majority of north americans think that tree-hugging hippies from greenpeace and PETA members are nuts (from the left. and they are), so are the frothing at the mouth, gun toting, pry from my cold dead hands, conspiracy theorists (from the right). give gun owners a better name. dont believe this stuff. or if you do (just like with not giving your child the polio or any other vaccine), dont talk about it with the general public. you arent doing the vast majority of us any favors, you are just giving us a bad name.
 
^^ Will you guys please stop trying to moderate this thread with RATIONAL interjections?

Everyone knows aliens are buying .22lr because in space you don't need a big projectile. Further to that, you want to minimize recoil!!

Aliens for the win!
C

Sorry, couldn't help myself.
 
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