22 ARC, the 22-250 killer

[MiG25]

Fast twists have been around for a very long time and there's nothing new under the Sun. And of course the 6mm Lee Navy had a fast twist and some of the Ackley 22's needed solid copper bullets, no Barnes didn't invent them.

The back reads:

"This is my old 30-06 Winchester made into a 6MM with a 22" barrel and a new stock etc. It has an 8" twist barrel and uses 110gr + 120gr bullets instead of 90gr which KG's gun uses.".

 

[Joel]

Joel, some of us have been using fast twist rifles for decades. Suddenly you discover them, and OMG, everyone is against them. Speaking of drama. - dan

Lmao what the heck are you on about, man? I said any of that?

Example, please? Oh, wait, whenever this happens, you never do provide any lol.

I've bet you've been using them since before Stoner invented the AR. Fantastic. Doesn't have anything to do with this convo and I never said they were new or that everyone is against them, or that I only recently discovered them (lol) just that you and and a couple other guys have a weird flex here. You're being silly again.

some of the Ackley 22's needed solid copper bullets, no Barnes didn't invent them.

Cool! Same deal, HP for expansion?

 

[Joel]

Not much out there balls up coyotes where they stand better than a 40gr vmax started out at warp nine.
Gets tougher to hit them with 40’s and 50’s once they are 600yards+ though compared to the 75’s and up.

Or lets you take Bullwinkle with the same load!

Or at least the same rifle, since you can still use the lighter bullets from it anyway...

 

[KodiakHntr]

Or lets you take Bullwinkle with the same load!

Or at least the same rifle, since you can still use the lighter bullets from it anyway...

That particular rifle has only seen 88’s when it comes to heartbeats, be it song dogs, yogi’s, or bullwinkles.

50’s for forming brass, and 88’s for keeps.

Might have to load some 40’s though to see what terminal effects are like on coyotes when spun from a 1:7.

 

[Joel]

That particular rifle has only seen 88’s when it comes to heartbeats, be it song dogs, yogi’s, or bullwinkles.

50’s for forming brass, and 88’s for keeps.

Might have to load some 40’s though to see what terminal effects are like on coyotes when spun from a 1:7.

That sounds like fun science...be interesting to hear how it groups in rifling thats too fast for it to shoot well too Betting its eye opening lol

Options are good.

But what do I know, only found out about fast twists and heavy bullets like yesterday, not back when Poudre B was all the rage lol

 

[Buckmastr]

I really wanted a 40vmax load for my 7.7T 223. It shot ok, good enough for coyotes at ~0.5”. But the gun ragged holed the 53 gr Vmax so that’s where I left it. I will shoot a few coyotes with it this winter to see how it works. But in the back of my mind I know the 40’s are the answer. My 12T model 7 223 and last years 12T 222 Rem Mag are on top with me, and will be hard to improve upon. But I’ll try for the fun of it. I expect nothing ground breaking unfortunately.

 

[dan belisle]

Lmao what the heck are you on about, man? I said any of that?

Example, please? Oh, wait, whenever this happens, you never do provide any lol.

I've bet you've been using them since before Stoner invented the AR. Fantastic. Doesn't have anything to do with this convo and I never said they were new or that everyone is against them, or that I only recently discovered them (lol) just that you and and a couple other guys have a weird flex here. You're being silly again.



Cool! Same deal, HP for expansion?

"Jeez, you'd think saying the industry shouldn't put suboptimal rates of twists on barrels wouldn't get such pushback lol. Interesting reactions. Funny though lol"

Your words. - dan

 

[Joel]

"Jeez, you'd think saying the industry shouldn't put suboptimal rates of twists on barrels wouldn't get such pushback lol. Interesting reactions. Funny though lol"

Your words. - dan

Yep! in response to:

Joel, some of us have been using fast twist rifles for decades. Suddenly you discover them, and OMG, everyone is against them. Speaking of drama. - dan

You may note, I never said no one has been using fast twist barrels before. I never said I suddenly discovered them. I never said everyone is against them. So I ask again, what the heck are you talking about, man? lol.

Really only a couple people are having a very odd reaction to a simple statement here. Hardly everyone. Just you and Pathfinder actually. And then it turns into "I'm gonna argue against things you never even said now!"

Why, Dan? Why do you do that?

 

[Hitzy]

Fast twists and heavy for cal bullets have a place, extended ranges...600+m, definitely a plus for long range target shooting. Also good for subsonics and cans...but not here of course.
Where it goes off track is case capacity, gotta be able to push those heavy bullets with enough powder, otherwise those heavy bullets become mortars at extended ranges.
Hunting...well I guess it depends what you are hunting, most scenarios don't require long range heavy for cal bullets as shots are not that far, any standard cartridge with standard offerings can accomplish any hunting scenario for the most part.
I don't get too caught up in the fast twist/new cartridges craze, well I shouldn't say that, I do have a few for target shooting out to 1000m, but my go to for that is still a factory Rem 700 long range in 7mm Mag, with 162ELDM and factory twist, gets there fast and easy to gauge.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Fast twists and heavy for cal bullets have a place, extended ranges...600+m, definitely a plus for long range target shooting. Also good for subsonics and cans...but not here of course.
Where it goes off track is case capacity, gotta be able to push those heavy bullets with enough powder, otherwise those heavy bullets become mortars at extended ranges.
Hunting...well I guess it depends what you are hunting, most scenarios don't require long range heavy for cal bullets as shots are not that far, any standard cartridge with standard offerings can accomplish any hunting scenario for the most part.
I don't get too caught up in the fast twist/new cartridges craze, well I shouldn't say that, I do have a few for target shooting out to 1000m, but my go to for that is still a factory Rem 700 long range in 7mm Mag, with 162ELDM and factory twist, gets there fast and easy to gauge.

Longer COAL is the easy solution and there are multiple magazine options across different platforms that allow you to easily achieve this.

223rem loaded with heavies at 2.5'ish overall length leave plenty of room for powder and really get those long heavies scooting along...so much so in my particular application that the 22 ARC isn't a huge speed improvement for me.

 

[Suther]

Longer COAL is the easy solution and there are multiple magazine options across different platforms that allow you to easily achieve this.

223rem loaded with heavies at 2.5'ish overall length leave plenty of room for powder and really get those long heavies scooting along...so much so in my particular application that the 22 ARC isn't a huge speed improvement for me.

Wouldn't the 22arc be able to do the same sort of thing with regards to loading long? Or is the case too short to get very far doing that?

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Wouldn't the 22arc be able to do the same sort of thing with regards to loading long? Or is the case too short to get very far doing that?

Sure...I don't see why not?

I almost considered a 22 Grendel awhile back and I am happy to see the 22 ARC a reality, but I enjoy the smoother feeding, easily obtainable brass and extra capacity in the magazine that the .223/5.56 case gives me.

 

[Joel]

Sure...I don't see why not?

If its like the 6mm its already kinda optimized to load as long as possible, I think? And under the theory that the less bullet inside the case the better from an accuracy standpoint as well?

I think I know the loads you're talking about Sun_and_Steel_77. They're remarkable haha

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

I think I know the loads you're talking about Sun_and_Steel_77. They're remarkable haha

75gr ELD-M's and 77gr TMK's burning 26grs of powder @ 2950fps out of a 20" barrel do great work for me on steel out to 600yds and fur out to 400.

If I didn't love scaled actions so much a fast twist 22-250 spun on one of my Tikkas would be just A-OK by me, although I cringe everytime I light-off a Large rifle Primer these days knowing I have to replace it at some point.

 

[todbartell]

Tikka makes an 8 twist 22-250, and Savage uses a 1:12 as standard, with a 1:9 on their 110 varmint.

The comparison feels deliberately aimed to make the 22-250 look worse than it is. Sure, grandpa's 22-250 from 4 decades back won't compete with a brand new fast twist cartridge at 800yds, but that is basically picking the worst 22-250 you can for the comparison.

Tikka made a special run of 8 twist 22-250 T3's for Beretta USA to distribute. Hardly a common variation, not sure if a single one made it to Canada. My father in law had a 9 twist Savage 22-250 and it shot the 75gr Amax well @ 3350 fps. Trajectory downrange would be close to the 22 ARC 62gr load

I shot coyotes for a year with a fast twist 223 and 75gr Bergers. They died but I like how they died better with the 40vmax. I had to prove it to myself. Not a long ranger however.

Who woulda thought a thicker jacketed target bullet wouldn't kill small game as quickly as a light for caliber varmint bullet

Where it goes off track is case capacity, gotta be able to push those heavy bullets with enough powder, otherwise those heavy bullets become mortars at extended ranges.

Well a 22 ARC 88gr ELD has flatter trajectory to 1000 yards than a 6.5 Creed 140gr ELD, and is not far off the FBI's long range standard 300 Win Mag 190gr SMK trajectory...according to the spreadsheets it's gonna get way out there no problem

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Well a 22 ARC 88gr ELD has flatter trajectory to 1000 yards than a 6.5 Creed 140gr ELD, and is not far off the FBI's long range standard 300 Win Mag 190gr SMK trajectory...according to the spreadsheets it's gonna get way out there no problem

That's impressive! ,and in todays climate of component shortages an overachieving powder-sipper using srp's can only be a good thing.
On second thought, whose shoulder and bank account doesn't love them after an afternoon of banging steel with a sporter weight rifle chambered in 300WM?

 

[Joel]

That's impressive! ,and in todays climate of component shortages an overachieving powder-sipper using srp's can only be a good thing.
On second thought, whose shoulder and bank account doesn't love them after an afternoon of banging steel with their 300WM?

HAH!

Its a big part of why I'm switching over to 6.5 Grendel for just about all, but the 223 and 22 ARC have a lot going for them, so does 6mm.

A 123gr bullet, about 30 grains of powder and a SRP is a nice place to be. Ditto the 22 cals.

 

[Suther]

Tikka made a special run of 8 twist 22-250 T3's for Beretta USA to distribute. Hardly a common variation, not sure if a single one made it to Canada. My father in law had a 9 twist Savage 22-250 and it shot the 75gr Amax well @ 3350 fps. Trajectory downrange would be close to the 22 ARC 62gr load

Tikka currently lists 3 different options for a 8-twist 22-250 on their website, a Varmint Hunter, Varmint Hunter Stainless, and a Super Varmint. I dunno how hard it is to get one, but it seems they're not just a special run?

Add Browning to the list of people using faster twists, just looked at a like 5 different X-bolts and they're all 9 twists.
https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/x-bolt/x-bolt-hunter.html

I feel like my point stands. There are at least a handful of factory rifles available in 22-250 with fast twist barrels these days. Of course 22-250 doesn't fit in an AR, so the 22ARC still has some merit to it, I just feel that the comparison to the 22-250 based on light bullets in the 22-250 is more marketing than it is a fair comparison.


How does it compare to the 224 Valkyrie? Seems like those two are pretty on par with each other? 224 Valk factory loads push a 60gr Nosler Ballistic tip to 3300, thats right where the 22ARC is with a 62gr isn't it? What advantage does the 22ARC have over the Valk?

 

[Joel]

Tikka currently lists 3 different options for a 8-twist 22-250 on their website, a Varmint Hunter, Varmint Hunter Stainless, and a Super Varmint. I dunno how hard it is to get one, but it seems they're not just a special run?

Add Browning to the list of people using faster twists, just looked at a like 5 different X-bolts and they're all 9 twists.
https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/x-bolt/x-bolt-hunter.html

I feel like my point stands. There are at least a handful of factory rifles available in 22-250 with fast twist barrels these days. Of course 22-250 doesn't fit in an AR, so the 22ARC still has some merit to it, I just feel that the comparison to the 22-250 based on light bullets in the 22-250 is more marketing than it is a fair comparison.


How does it compare to the 224 Valkyrie? Seems like those two are pretty on par with each other? 224 Valk factory loads push a 60gr Nosler Ballistic tip to 3300, thats right where the 22ARC is with a 62gr isn't it? What advantage does the 22ARC have over the Valk?

About a .100 better BC, from the 62gr. But prob takes quite a distance before that becomes apparent eh?

 

[Buckmastr]

Here we go. Tods comparing 1000 yard ballistics on a cartridge marketed as a varmint round.